Tell Me about Rolemaster

[Rechan]

Wearing armor in Rolemaster can be a good idea, but you don't have to go that route if you don't want to. Armor effectively acts as damage reduction, causing hits against you to be less severe than if you were unarmored. If you look at the tables, it's often easier to hit people wearing armor, but you only do small amounts of damage (and no crit) unless you get a very high hit roll. Unarmored people are harder to hit, but when you do hit them, you'll hit hard (and roll on the crit tables).

Thanks, that's helpful. Wiki did mention the "housecats killing commoners".

 

[SableWyvern]

And the magic-related stuff?

Sorry, I was unclear. Poison Mastery and Assassin Mastery are Magent spell lists, specifically the ones which help make Magents good at killing people. His other list deal with being sneaky or gathering intel on a prospective mark.

So noted. You mentioned Mentalists get social stuff cheap, so one avenue of potential is going mentalist, picking up social stuff, and then trying to "Branch out". While they likely don't have many arms skills, I bet it's easier to supplement offensively with TK or something. A psychic ninja or spy. Since the Magent is an Essence class, who get social skills cheap, this might be a route to go.

Mentalists (the specific profession) are more likely to use domination and charm effects in combat, although there is a telekinetic list somewhere in Open or Closed Mentalism that allows attacks.

Also, the Magent is mentalism. Dabblers are essence.

General question now: What should be avoided? What are the common "Pit falls"?

Honestly, despite the complexity of character generation, I think it's pretty hard to make an ineffective character. For a semi, spending everything on spells and nothing on skills would be an issue, but that's about all that comes to mind. It should be fairly evident based on skill costs what areas any given profession is meant to specialise in -- if you're developing all the expensive ones and none of the cheap ones, you've probably picked the wrong profession for what you're after.

As a semi, you'll want to focus on a single main weapon*. A secondary weapon might be ok, but don't waste points trying to get it to the same level as your primary. You don't need to bump up PP Development every level, since you're not going to have a huge array of spells. If your PP stat is adequate, you can start with no ranks in PP Dev at all.

For skills with X/Y costs (as opposed to X or X/X/X), over the long haul, a single rank per level (or, if you're widely skilled, 1 every 2 or 2 every 3) is more efficient than maxing out your allowed ranks. Due to diminishing returns, you'll eventually catch the character who maxed out a smaller number skills, and have more breadth. Which isn't to say you can't max stuff out, just don't feel as if you have to.

Don't forget Body Development -- it's your hp skill.

*EDIT: It's worth pointing out that the same is true for a Monk. Focus on Sweeps or Strikes, don't try and master both.

 

[pemerton]

While I'm running a D&D game, a player is a veteran of Rolemaster and wants to start a rolemaster game during the week.

I've been playing and GMing RM pretty regularly since 1990. I think it's a good system (obviously, or I wouldn't have been playing it as my main RPG for all that time). But it also has limitations, which some of its more enthusiastic boosters sometimes ignore.

I've only been able to glean a few things from him and Wikipedia. Namely:

1) Once you finish character creation, it's just a roll of percentile dice + modifier = outcome to anything.[/quote
Yes, but there are a multitude of resolution systems.

For combat (both weapon and bolt/ball/cone attacks) you look up the result on an attack chart. Many results then require you to roll a critical on another chart (the Crit Tables for which RM is deservedly famous).

For some non-combat manouevres, you look up the result on the Moving Manoeuvres chart, which in turn yields a result of Fail or else a number between 10 and about 150. This latter number can in turn be interpreted in various ways depending on the action attempted, but normally represents something like Percentage Success. The MM chart itself has one column for each degree of manouevre difficulty.

For some non-combat manoeuvres, you look up the result on the Static Action chart, which has entries at below -25, -25 to 04, 05 to 70, 71-90, 91 to 110, 111 to 175, and 176 and up. Each of those entries tells you the outcome of your manoevure, from terrible failure (at -26 or down) to utter success (at 176 and up). Each sort of manouevre (picking locks, stealth, crafting etc) has its own Static Action chart.

For attack spell-casting other than bolt/ball/cone attacks there is the Base Attack Chart, which generates a modifier to your enemies saving throw (called a Resistance Roll in RM).

Depending on edition, spell casting may also require a manoeuvre prior to the attack called the Extraordinary Spell Failure (ESF) manouevre in RM2 or the Spell Casting Static Action in RMSS/RMFRP. This is resolved something like a Static Action with special modifiers unique to spell casting.

2) Charts for everything. EVERYTHING. Charts charts charts.

As I've just indicated, this is not untrue. But it's also not as bad as it's often made out to be. A couple of things have to be kept in mind:

*First, a good RM GM has an instinctive feel for a lot of the charts, so for many manouevre rolls which are not utterly crucial (eg sneaking past the guards on one's way to a shady deal in the bad end of town) the GM can just adjudicate from the result of your dice roll plus modifiers without needing to look up the chart.

*Second, RM works best when the chart-intensive action is confined to key moments of the game. If you try to run RM with as many encounters per level as D&D it will bog down into a chart nightmare, as encounters (whether combat or non-combat) that are meaningless from the plot point-of-view hog an inordinate amount of playing time.

I think that the above two points should be seen as something like an informal analogue in RM play to the difference between simple and extended contests in HeroWars. If you wouldn't do it as an extended contest in HeroWars, think twice about launching into it in RM.

3) It's "realistic". For instance, while there are "Hit Points", most injuries come from a "Critical hit" table, and the degree of those injuries usually designate you dieing. And even a skipping stone can kill you with a lucky roll.

This is true. At mid-to-high levels (eg 10th and up, which plays a little like 6th and up in D&D), healing magic is normally good enough that the risks are fairly minimal and can be handled by the party. At low levels you will either need the GM to fudge, the players to have Fate Points of some sort to force GM rerolls, or be ready to introduce new PCs after combats. In the past I've tended to fudge a bit as GM; in the future I'd use Fate Points.

4) "Magic" is in three categories: Arcane, Mentalist, and Channeling.

"Arcane" is called "Essence" in RM - it includes Elemental magic, Illusions, Item Creation, plus a lot of auxiliary stuff like Flying, Teleporting and some Shape Changing. Channellling is what D&D calls Divine, and covers Healing, some of the best Divination, the RM equivalents of Fabricate, Create Food & Drink etc. Mentalism is psionics - self healing, self buff, divination.

5) You're just a vulnerable kitten without armor.

Generally true unless you have what RM calls Adrenal Defence, which is the functional equivalent of the monk AC bonus in AD&D and 3E.

I'm interested in Mentalism, but I don't know what it can "do". Is it telekinesis, telepathy, can you do some sort of force-ninjitsu to be Neo, what? I'd enjoy something like a Jedi, or in D&D terms, a Monk/Psion. But I just don't know what the options Mentalism offers.

Mentalism might suit. For a Jedi you actually need hybrid Mentalism/Essence, which is a little limited in core RM but handled well by the near-infinite number of supplements.

Aside from the three magics, and obviously "I'm a warrior with a sword", what other "Classes" or Archetypes does Rolemaster facilitate?

A very wide range. In my view the far-and-away biggest strength of RM is its rich and flexible character build system, which allow (especially by D&D standards) a very nuanced and detailed expression of the personality and capacities of the PC.

 

[RabidBob]

Honestly, despite the complexity of character generation, I think it's pretty hard to make an ineffective character.

This:

Don't forget Body Development -- it's your hp skill.

ALWAYS take max Body Dev every level. RAW combat in RM is EXTREMELY deadly. Due to the way critical hits work it's just a matter of time before you are unlucky and are dead. There are a lot of fantastic aspects to RM but there's a huge amount of luck based things too at least when I was last playing. IIRC learning spell lists is a bit random; you put skill points into the list and then roll, if you're lucky you learn that section of the list and if not you have another chance next level. I played RM through my teens and into my 20ies and loved it; we were realism freaks. Looking back I'd not touch it again with a barge pole! When 3E came out I realised that realism does not necessarily mean fun.

 

[SableWyvern]

ALWAYS take max Body Dev every level.

A friend of mine who was along time RM player just told me he believes that one rank per level is necessary, but not necessarily a second (depending on profession). I believe less combat-oriented professions can get away with two ranks every three levels, possibly one rank every two.

IIRC learning spell lists is a bit random; you put skill points into the list and then roll, if you're lucky you learn that section of the list and if not you have another chance next level.

That's RM2, where you got spell lists in 10-level blocks (but, 25th, 30th and 50th level spells seperately). In RMSS, one rank = one level known.

 

[RabidBob]

A friend of mine who was along time RM player just told me he believes that one rank per level is necessary, but not necessarily a second (depending on profession). I believe less combat-oriented professions can get away with two ranks every three levels, possibly one rank every two.

I'd definitely disagree, but it will depend a lot on how the game is run. We played one campaign where we played strictly RAW and no character lasted more than 5 sessions; we quickly learned to maximise every combat advantage we could.

That's RM2, where you got spell lists in 10-level blocks (but, 25th, 30th and 50th level spells seperately). In RMSS, one rank = one level known.

Excellent change for RMSS then. I was playing RM1 though.

 

[pemerton]

Rechan:

Mystics (Hybrid E/M) have the best shapechanging in the core game, debuff (it's called Confusing ways), personal illusions and invis, and access to reasonable area illusions via Open Essence "Lesser Illusions". They also have access to the best Mind Control in the game vis Closed Essence "Spirit Mastery" - which, a little oddly, is better than almost all the equivalent spells in Mentalism.

Another interesting class is Sorcerer, which has excellent "debuffs" in the form of vicious physical and mental attacks, and good mind control (via Soul Destrution) and excellent area attacks (via the Vacuum spells on Gas Destruction).

Neither Mystics nor Sorcerers are useful in straight-up melee, however (a bit like a D&D wizard).

And unless you're planning to go into melee, don't both double-developing Body Development, as it won't give you enough hits to make it worthwhile. You're better off developing more spells which will stop you getting into trouble in the first place.

 

[WayneLigon]

2) Charts for everything. EVERYTHING. Charts charts charts.
3) It's "realistic". For instance, while there are "Hit Points", most injuries come from a "Critical hit" table, and the degree of those injuries usually designate you dieing. And even a skipping stone can kill you with a lucky roll.

The charts can be a chore but not if you're organized. Each weapon has it's own hit/damage chart, so you'll need to make sure you have a copy of the weapons your encounter is using, plus the tables for the relevant crits they can do. Or, make the crit look-up the job of one of the players - that's easy because many of the crits are fun to read. "Trip on an invisible turtle - lose next action"

You make an open-ended roll (if you roll 96-100, you roll again and add the previous result. The charts usually go up to about 200 or so if I remember correctly) and cross index your roll with the armor type you're going against. Low rolls will simply not hit. Higher rolls will give a damage number. Rolls over 100 will start giving crit results along with damage.

There are different types of crits. Smashing, peircing, electrical, cold, etc. There are different degrees of crits as well, from A to E. So, a typical result might be 23Ap, 23 damage and an 'A' Peircing Critical. 'A' crits are low-level stuff. A little more damage, an armor strap breaks, etc. The 'E' criticals are the ones everyone talks about, where you lop someone's head off and he instantly dies, and the gory spectacle stuns everyone in a certain radius. You usually only hit those by amazing luck, or having some high boost to your roll from a magic item, a spell, circumstances, etc.

Some spell criticals can multiply as well; you have some that do two crits, or do smashing and electrical crits, etc etc.

 

[SableWyvern]

Excellent change for RMSS then. I was playing RM1 though.

Well, RM2 is just RM1 with an improved layout, an empahsis on using the entire gameline (instead of slotting bits and pieces into other games) and a bunch of optional rules in the Companions.

 

[Urbannen]

I recently played in a RMFRP/RMSS game. (I didn't play long since the other players' characters got killed and were replaced by assassin dark elves that didn't really mesh with my original animist )

The comments here have been pretty positive, but RM has some definite negatives, too.

1. They say RM is customizable. However, it is even more a class-based system than D&D. You can't multi-class in RM. It's not usually adviseable to create an "non-standard" version of your character class. There are just a lot more classes to choose from.

2. My feeling is that the base RM rules do not give characters enough skill points. It is very hard to get a well-rounded character without sacrficing your non-DP stats. RAW, you need very high skill modifiers to succeed at even basic tasks, which means you have to max out your skills to be effective. This encourages specialization, not customization.

3. Spellcasting is hard. Very hard. For example: It takes three rounds to cast your most powerful spells without a penalty. Then the system seems to favor spell-targets and not spellcasters when it comes to resistance. That's for starters.

4. There is a rule that makes it very expensive to learn more than five spell lists per level. However, you can learn up to three ranks without a penalty. But you're penalized if you cast a spell that's higher than your level?!? One of RM's strengths is its wide selection of spells. Many of the spell lists are utility-oriented. It is not easy to sacrifice precious skill points to learn them. It's even worse in the basic RM system where you pay points to have the chance to learn a list, many of whose spells you may not be of sufficiently high level to cast.

It is especially difficult for semi-spellcasters to learn a variety of spell-lists.

5. The rule books are poorly organized. There are lots of charts, which would be OK if it was easy to find the ones you need. There is no one place that has all the rules and charts needed for spellcasting. You also have to be pretty smart to figure out the Moving Maneuver system. I am talking about RMSS/RMFRP here. Maybe other versions are better.

6. You can't really play the skills system as written. There is no such thing as an untrained skill and you get a base -30 for a skill you're not trained in. In theory, almost everything requires a skill roll, and it's very hard to get a success without a high bonus. Again, this is RMSS/RMFRP. I think most DMs just eyeball skill rolls and ignore skill checks if the characters aren't trained.

7. Because of the crit system, the party needs at least one dedicated healer, such as a cleric or lay healer. No UMD to use a wand of cure light wounds! And even a dedicated healer will not always be able to get the job done.

The good stuff?

1. Nice Tolkienesque flavor.

2. Spell lists are not just for combat - they have RP applications.

3. Combats are interesting because of the crit system

4. Magic system with 3 realms is flavorful.