Tell Me About Savage Worlds (please)...

[amerigoV]

I don't like the skill and stat system not being additive like dnd or hollow earth expedition, or what have you. It was lame in my opinion being able to have a d12 willpower but a d4 guts and be scared of anything.

I had that as an initial reaction and have heard others say it. At low levels of play it shows up the most. But it does have a tie. You can increase your Guts score for 1/2 the cost (1/2 an Advance) up to d12 in your example. But if you only had a d4 in Spirit (their name for Willpower) then it costs a full advance to move the skill up past d4 (so there is an advantage/disadvantage built in).

Also, attributes are used alot in the system. If a skill does not fit, you use an appropriate attribute. Vigor and Spirit checks are used all the time in combat, and the strenght die (not bonus, a full die) is used in melee combat.

Like many thinks in SW, things make sense after you have played it awhile, but there are some things that you run into when you first play that go against gaming norms.

I liked the spell system alot, but my group wasn't imaginative with it at all unfortunately.

On this one, I'll use a saying off an old KiSS concert t-shirt that I had: "Life is like Sex, the more you put in, the more you get out." The magic system can make or break one's interest in the game. As a GM, l always push myself to spend 10-15 minutes on trappings during prep when a spellcaster is involved. You get cool stuff like Tarot Cards, Flaming/exploding Goblins (don't ask), Demons for a fallen priest, and all sorts of other cool things.

 

[pawsplay]

I tried 1e and dropped it. I came back for Explorer's Edition. I like the updates, and I like some of the new setting material, and I like the price point. Still it's mostly the same game, with all its weaknesses and strengths.

Probably the biggest hurdle is that playing the game involves frequent encounters with probability mathematics, but it was apparently designed by someone who is not very probability-savvy. 6 is a very common target number; thanks to exploding dice, it is actually easier for someone with a d4 to hit 6 than for someone with d6. If you have any modifiers at all, that issue disappears, but it is a real, annoying quirk about the system.

Kind of along those lines, it is a fast-playing, loosey-goosey kind of game which emphasizes fun. But almost all the defined traits are fiddly combat bonuses, or equipment-related. Combat is dramatic, swingy, and fairly elegant... but it's so fast and simple you really need build up for it, a sense that the stakes matter. Hopefully your GM and players will provide that, because frankly, the game doesn't provide any meaningful resources or benchmarks for things that happen outside of combat, Special Effects, and a few skill rolls. The only part of character creation that really draws on the players to invest in their character's personalities are the drawback traits.

The powers system is very flexible, but not very precise. It can be a blunt instrument. For instance, there isn't a good way in the core book to create a Jedi "mind trick." You have orbital laser mind control, and that's about it. The system doesn't have lots of fiddly power modifiers and such.

It's a lot of fun if you want to throw piles of miniatures on the table and have them fight, or if you want to convert a setting, but can't be arsed to do a full twenty-page treatment in GURPS or M&M or something. It has many of the strengths of the 4e encounter-based design, and some of the weaknesses, but in comparison, I consider it a much more streamlined, friendly experience for players. Also, usually faster.

 

[Rel]

6 is a very common target number

Why is 6 a very common target number? It would be the Parry of a PC (or NPC) with a d8 Fighting but other than that I can't think of any reason I'd say it was a "common" target number. The two most common target numbers in my games tend to be 4 (a standard success) and 8 (a success with a raise).

 

[Greg K]

Like Rel stated, for most things the most common TN for base success is 4 and the other item of importance is the raise (+4 or higher above TN).

According to Clint Black, SW's Brand Manager, the anomaly is not that significant. It happens only when rolling a die vs a TN = to the next highest die type. However, the TN for most things is 4.

When the anomaly does occur, the benefit, in the most extreme case at one particular TN, is only 2.08% and affects only the base success (otherwise the benefit is lower and often less than 1%). In contrast, having the die equal to the TN rather than the lower die, however, increases the chance of a raise and decreases the chance of a critical failure- in the instance of the extreme example, the chance of getting th raise is almost doubled by having the higher die.

Anyone interested can read Clint's full argument here

 

[pawsplay]

When the anomaly does occur, the benefit, in the most extreme case at one particular TN, is only 2.08% and affects only the base success (otherwise the benefit is lower and often less than 1%).

Relative to the base chance of success, though, (16.66%), you are talking about 8%. That's 8% fewer successes. If, out of a hundred trials, the d6 guy would get not quite seventeen successes, the d4 guy gets more than eighteen.

Against TN4, the standard, the d4 guy has a 1 in 4 shot. The d6 guy has even odds! But if the TN goes up to 6, for some reason, suddenly the d4 guy has a fairly significant advantage. It's not a rare occurence. You can also get it by having a TN of 8, but getting some kind of +2 bonus. Ta-da.

The only way for it not to matter is if you decide not to care. In the end, I've decided not to care, but it is a definite defect in the system if you really want to rely on the probabilities it deals out.

Note that a smaller but identical issues occurs with d6 and d8 v. TN 8 and 8 obviously is a common TN. One of the most common. And you still get a 1.3% difference.

Given the large number of tests under various circumstances, it's easy enough to ignore. But if you know your math, it's really annoying.

And just think, there would be no problem if, in the first place, the designer had decided to be charitible and make the standard TNs 3 and 7. Success tends to be low probability anyway in SW.

 

[alms66]

Give me everything you've got (and have the time and inclination to post): praise, criticism, amusing anecdotes, etc.

I read through the Savage Worlds Explorer Edition and thought to my self, "This is GURPS with retarded statistical anomalies in the mechanics such as having a higher chance to get a critical success with a d4 than with a d6, which is supposed to be the better skill."

...time to get rid of that...

I know the book's cheap, but again IMHO, just play GURPS, it does everything SW does and it does it better, mechanically speaking. Though, if you're short on cash, SW is a decent compromise for GURPS.

 

[pawsplay]

GURPS is a great game, but I don't see it as very close to Savage Worlds in form or spirit. I'd compare SW more to the D6 System or FATE.

 

[amerigoV]

Given the large number of tests under various circumstances, it's easy enough to ignore. But if you know your math, it's really annoying.

I know me maths, but it does not bother me. It finally gives the little d4 some 'bite,' I mean other than when you drop it on the floor and it becomes a caltrop. It gives homage to the old phrase "beginners luck."

And I'll be darned if the little buggers did not betray me by rolling a 1,1 last night for damage. Stupid probabilities.

 

[Bedrockgames]

GURPS is a great game, but I don't see it as very close to Savage Worlds in form or spirit. I'd compare SW more to the D6 System or FATE.

I think GURPS is a great system, but definitely see it as standing on opposite ends of the generic spectrum from Savage Worlds. Savage is all about being light weight and providing a vehicle for fast, furious cinematic play. It definitely achieves what it set out to do IMO.

 

[Walking Dad]

I read through the Savage Worlds Explorer Edition and thought to my self, "This is GURPS with retarded statistical anomalies in the mechanics such as having a higher chance to get a critical success with a d4 than with a d6, which is supposed to be the better skill."

...time to get rid of that...

I know the book's cheap, but again IMHO, just play GURPS, it does everything SW does and it does it better, mechanically speaking. Though, if you're short on cash, SW is a decent compromise for GURPS.

It is similar to GURPS in the regard that the system can be used for multible genres. The similarity ends here.

Savage World has a quick character creation and almost no bookkeeping fights. That is not similar to GURPS.