Tell me about weapons of legacy

[Felon]

Regarding doing research, Eberron introduces a Research skill IIRC. Personally, I don't think there's that much skill involved in flipping through stacks of old books until you come across the reference you're looking for. About the only area where skill is a factor is in knowing where to focus your research, which is exactly where I'd say good ol' Knowledge Skills come in handy.

Upon reflection, I think I will give legacy weapons a try since they appear in both White Plume Mountain and Expedition to Ravenloft. I will have to make some adjustments, however. Primarily, I intend to mitigate the attack roll penalties, which is my big dislike. Not sure if I'll replace them with other penalties (initiative maybe?), or just make them attack roll penalties in a specific situation, or just tell the players to ignore that column altogether. I will also do something similar with skill check penalties, since they primarily penalize experts.

 

[iwatt]

Regarding doing research, Eberron introduces a Research skill IIRC. Personally, I don't think there's that much skill involved in flipping through stacks of old books until you come across the reference you're looking for. About the only area where skill is a factor is in knowing where to focus your research, which is exactly where I'd say good ol' Knowledge Skills come in handy.

I'm guessing you're used to books with ncie codified indexes and well organized info. When books have circular and obscure refernces, and the Dewey decimal system ahsn't been invented, finding something in alibrary will be hard. Very hard.

 

[ZSutherland]

I'm guessing you're used to books with ncie codified indexes and well organized info. When books have circular and obscure refernces, and the Dewey decimal system ahsn't been invented, finding something in alibrary will be hard. Very hard.

Amen. I had a player complain about this once. I made him watch the scene in Fellowship of the Ring where Gandalf is searching through old tomes and loose pages in Gondor for the story of the Ring. I pointed at the screen and said, "That's what life would be like without the Dewey decimal system and a card catalogue." He promptly went back to the table and made his check.

As for the book, I'll admit I haven't read it, so I'll not venture an opinion on it, but I do have a question. Is the book designed in such a way that it encourages players to make their own items so that the DM only has to check the math for approval (assuming intial approval of the book itself)? I can see that being handy, so long as the book/system itself is well-written, but if it's more a tool for DMs I don't see much reason to buy it. Make said item. Put item in treasure. Have PCs find. Done. If ever there was a rule that was more a guideline, it's wealth by character level.

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

There's a system contained in the book for players to make their own WoL. A large portion of the book is devoted to ready-made items, but they're not always a "perfect" fit by any stretch, and it's fun to roll yer own.

The system for making items is flexible, but less-so than, say, what was used to make the items in the book. The items in the book have a few where the author said: "This would make a cool ability for -this- item, but it might be abused if everybody could use it." so it doesn't appear in the tables at the back, etc etc.

The PC spends gold and devotes XP to founding the legacy. You choose the Personal Cost path (making sure its appropriate to the PC), then there are tables and choices for what you can put on the item and when you can put it in there. You could, pretty much, be hands-off but for checking the math, as you say. That's where I am. My item has a couple of things that weren't there when the book was written, some abilities from the DMGII, so the GM had to okay those.

--fje

 

[Felon]

I'm guessing you're used to books with ncie codified indexes and well organized info. When books have circular and obscure refernces, and the Dewey decimal system ahsn't been invented, finding something in alibrary will be hard. Very hard.

That's pretty much what I was already saying--that finding info in an esoteric array of books is largely a crap shoot, and the best you can do is try to figure out which tomes to avoid flipping through--so I don't know what you're getting all patronizing about.

 

[iwatt]

That's pretty much what I was already saying--that finding info in an esoteric array of books is largely a crap shoot, and the best you can do is try to figure out which tomes to avoid flipping through--so I don't know what you're getting all patronizing about.

Sorry, I'm confused now. From your post I gathered that you felt researching doesn't involve much skill. That is the point I'm disagreeing with.

Regarding doing research, Eberron introduces a Research skill IIRC. Personally, I don't think there's that much skill involved in flipping through stacks of old books until you come across the reference you're looking for. About the only area where skill is a factor is in knowing where to focus your research, which is exactly where I'd say good ol' Knowledge Skills come in handy.

emphasis mine

 

[Felon]

Sorry, I'm confused now. From your post I gathered that you felt researching doesn't involve much skill. That is the point I'm disagreeing with.

Well, I said that the area of skill is in knowing where to focus your research--basically, in knowing which books are a total waste of time, as opposed to which books just might have some sliver of a possibility of containing the info sought. Beyond that, it's a crap-shoot. I wasn't trying to say it was too easy to require much skill, but rather that it's too difficult, too random.

If ancient tomes contain jumbled references and libraries lacked any organized method of indexing their collection, with books haphazardly tucked on a shelf according to the librarian's whim, then it sounds more like you're eliminating skill as a factor rather than endorsing it. There is little technique involved in finding a needle in a haystack. You just gotta dig away patiently and look real hard.

 

[iwatt]

Well, I said that the area of skill is in knowing where to focus your research--basically, in knowing which books are a total waste of time, as opposed to which books just might have some sliver of a possibility of containing the info sought. Beyond that, it's a crap-shoot. I wasn't trying to say it was too easy to require much skill, but rather that it's too difficult, too random.

Ok. Then I think we agree. Somehow I think we got derailed into a misunderstanding.

With respect to the crapshoot, what I do with libraries and the Knowledge skill is that depending on the roll I determine how long it will take the researcher to find the info. If the information isn't there they can't find it, if they roll poorly it takes extremely long, and if they roll good then I have them find it very quickly.