Telling a story vs. railroading

[rounser]

No but in the context of the game world, which is something youre either purposefully ignoring just to make your point, if you tell the PC's what Hill Giants are and what they are capable of theyre going to get an idea of how dangerous they are. That has NOTHING to do with CR's.

Provide an example, please.

The NPC's know NOTHING of CR's...

Do they know whether the PCs are the equal of an adult red dragon? Now? In a month's time when they've gained four levels?

There are no UNIVERSAL fixes.

How do you know? Someone might come up with something elegant and comprehensive.

So having an NPC in the game that knows more than the PC's is metagamey? We were specifically talking about a mentor type right? Who said anything about the PC being omniscient? Youre kinda taking this to the extreme now arent you? If the NPC is there strictly for guidence or support then what's the problem or are the PC's supposed to just get all of thier information from where exactly if no one actually knows more than they do?

"So there's this guy, see, who knows all about the campaign world's monsters and NPC villains and hidden dungeons, exactly how tough they are, and all about you guys, and what you've been up to for your entire careers and all of what gear you have and all your skills and abilities..."

You see no problem with such an NPC, and don't understand the references to Elminster?

It's pretty obvious our styles are really different and there is no middle ground here so lets leave this conversation alone for now.

Fine by me.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

Provide an example, please.

Do they know whether the PCs are the equal of an adult red dragon? Now? In a month's time when they've gained four levels?

How do you know? Someone might come up with something elegant and comprehensive.

"So there's this guy, see, who knows all about the campaign world's monsters and NPC villains and hidden dungeons, exactly how tough they are, and all about you guys, and what you've been up to for your entire careers and all of what gear you have and all your skills and abilities..."

You see no problem with such an NPC, and don't understand the references to Elminster?

Fine by me.

Okay now youre just being a jerk.

If you've got any more snark let's just take it to email then.

 

[zypherillius]

PCs railroading too

would you consider it in the same way if the PC wants to go somewhere and the dm says no not because he doesnt want the party to go there, but the dm is unsure of the destination? upon hearing the dm say no, the pc decides to go there anyway, through hook or by crook, whichever means necessary, diverting the story being told to suit the certain pcs ideas?

 

[rounser]

Okay now youre just being a jerk.

If you've got any more snark let's just take it to email then.

I see. That accusation is a clever way to exit from a discussion which is posing questions which would otherwise force you to prove your case, I guess.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

I see. That accusation is a clever way to exit from a discussion which is posing questions which would otherwise force you to prove your case, I guess.

Like I said, let's take it to e-mail.

 

[rounser]

Like I said, let's take it to e-mail.

No. You can leave this thread if you like, though.

 

[Henry]

I see. That accusation is a clever way to exit from a discussion which is posing questions which would otherwise force you to prove your case, I guess.

Actually, he's not; he asked to take it to e-mail, which I think is sensible and logical if anyone's going to be insulting one another. Let's everyone leave the sarcasm off-board, and if there's a point to be made, let's make it without insulting others or their intelligence. I've seen some increasingly rude responses above, and I'd appreciate it if it cooled off a bit.

Thanks, all.

 

[Raven Crowking]

I also choose not to rob banks because of the consequences.

Rational, obvious consequence to action is not railroading.

But we're going around in circles here, and I've already complied with your and Quasqueton's requests, so no railroading has occurred.

Except, of course, that isn't what I said at all. If the players, before the game begins, agree that they are going to play an adventure path, there is no railroading. If the players, before the game begins, believe that they are not playing an adventure path, but in fact are playing an adventure path, that is railroading.

Usurpation of player choice + linear play = railroading.

My position is pretty easily stated. It is not what you are claiming it is.

RC

 

[ShinHakkaider]

No. You can leave this thread if you like, though.

So I see, you can be snarky on the board but you cant take it to e-mail?

Fine lets let's finish it here then...

As for proving a case, there is no case to prove. I was simply trying to get you to understand where I was coming from in terms of the topic at hand and you were simply satisfied to snipe at minute points in my responses instead of taking a look at the general points I was trying to make.

This isnt a court of law and I'm not trying to win an argument. I'm not trying to say that your way of doing things sucks or that it's stupid, I'm saying that this is the way I handle things and it works for me. I dont see it as metagamey and Elminsterish or whatever.

The PC's going up against a Red Dragon should be hazardous untertaking no matter what level they are. Red Dragons are dangerous, period. I dont see a problem with NPC's having access to information that the PC's dont have and then possibly imparting that knowledge to the PC's. You see it as a crutch, I see it as being smart and the PC's doing their homework. If Elminster is your only exposure to that sort of thing then I can understand your response, but even in real life when people dont know something they consult someone who knows more than they do. THEY GATHER INTELLIGENCE. Especially if they know that theyre about to walk into a dangerous situation. That's common sense.

The only person who mentioned all knowing NPC's was YOU. That's you projecting your beefs onto this discussion and had close to nothing to do with what I was talking about. Knowing more than the PC's does not mean all knowing. It just doesnt.

And as for you believing in an UNIVERSAL fix, that's on you. But everygroup is going to tweak things to thier liking, whether it's mechanics or the role-playing process itself. As long as people like to customize there will be no UNIVERSAL fix, because everyone wont use that fix as it's intended. Everyone will use it differently no matter how "elegant" people might believe it is.

 

[Raven Crowking]

would you consider it in the same way if the PC wants to go somewhere and the dm says no not because he doesnt want the party to go there, but the dm is unsure of the destination? upon hearing the dm say no, the pc decides to go there anyway, through hook or by crook, whichever means necessary, diverting the story being told to suit the certain pcs ideas?

No. Usurpation of player choice + linear play = railroading.

That is the opposite end of the spectrum from railroading, and needs a good name of its own.

RC