Tempest Fighter or Melee Ranger?

[Elric]

-I swapped the 15/14 between Con & Dex to get Rain of Blows & to keep on track for the 19 Dex required for Flail Mastery at Epic, but beyond these two concerns I don't see any reason it couldn't be 15 Con/14 Dex

You need 15 Con for Plate Proficiency. So you'd either want to drop Dex to 14 or Wis to 13 if you were doing the build this way.

I understand the reasoning with the fighter build.

My problem is that people who dual wield as fighters make seriously 0 sense. It has utterly 0 benefit (at this point at least) and you could bump up a damage dice (not to mention other properties like high crit/brutal) by taking an honest to goodness 2 handed weapon.

Dual Strike is an incredible at will, particularly if you take advantage of Adventurer's Vault's overpowered damage-boosting items. Funneling Fury (level 1) and Hampering Flurry (level 7), both from MP, are fighter powers that take advantage of dual-wielding. Rain of Blows doesn't have advantage of dual-wielding, but if you meet the prerequisites (15 Dex + a flail does the trick) it's overpowered.

That said, dual-wielding fighters can be too strong, with damage comparable to a dual-wielding ranger (which does very high damage for a striker), plus the better hit points and class features of a fighter. The Ranger build gives you more skills, more multiclass, and a wider selection of powers that take advantage of your two weapons.

 

[Flipguarder]

Didn't mean to sound unappreciative. sorry bout that.

I love all the ideas you guys are throwing out, and I just realized that he WAS using the tempest build, meaning there would be some powers using both weapons.

I suppose the more i looked at the character and the kind of personality I wanted him to have, the more I started leaning towards ranger.

Im surprised at 4es lack of versatility when it comes to dual wielding options. The beastmaster addition to the ranger class in martial power seemed like kind of a cop out to me.

The other idea Im throwing out is possibly allowing my players to take the benefits of two seperate backgrounds, allowing this character to forgoe multi-classing for now, and freeing up another feat.

 

[DracoSuave]

It's not so much a problem as it's a limitation on iterative (multiple) attacks. They want the powers using it to be special, the schtick of certain classes or builds, not the automatic awesome button.

Look at it this way, above you were saying something about it almost as good as a two-handed weapon.

That means that it's where it should be in power, given it's defensive advantage.

 

[Dan'L]

You need 15 Con for Plate Proficiency. So you'd either want to drop Dex to 14 or Wis to 13 if you were doing the build this way.

d'OH! Can't believe I overlooked that. Ah, well. I guess I'd have to give up a point in either Str or Wis to have both Dex & Con at 15. I guess it all depends on how important Will defense & Wis skills are v. AC/fort & damage. Or forgo Rain of Blows.

-Dan'L

 

[boolean]

Take the Ranger multiclass, then, and dual-wield flails. You'll be missing on the additional damage from Tempest Technique.

OR...

Keep the stats for the short swords and just describe them as being flails designed for off-hand use.

Has anybody else pointed out the Scourge (from AV) as an option for this character? +2 proficiency, 1d8 damage, off-hand.

It's not much help if you stick with Ranger, and little benefit for a fighter in plate. It simply means you don't need the Two-Blade Warrior feat.

 

[Flipguarder]

I could see the scourge working better for a tempest fighter build of this guy, yeah, freeing up the multiclass spot for something like barbarian to get intimidate and some extra damage.

thanks for the tip.

 

[ppaladin123]

Im surprised at 4es lack of versatility when it comes to dual wielding options.

Two separate class builds, the most powerful exploits around, and a bunch of feats (even some geared at particular weapon combos) all for a totally imaginary, totally implausible fighting style? I think 4e has given two-weapon fighting styles plenty of candy. It's about time they share some of that love with sword-n-boarders and two-handed weapon users!