Templates tend to suck?

[Grog]

Is it just me, or are most templates really not worth the +ECL attached to them? Sure, some give some nice stat bonuses and other abilities, but in most if not all cases, it doesn't seem like the benefits you get are worth being X number of levels behind the rest of the party.

I mean, is being an ogre really worth 5 character levels? What do you really get out of it? You get some extra strength, which is nice. You get natural armor, but there are magic items that give that. You have reach - but so does a human with a reach weapon. Meanwhile, your BAB, skills, feats, hit points, etc. will lag significantly behind standard characters of comparable level.

And this isn't even getting into the problem of trying to play a spellcaster from a +ECL template.

It really seems to me that templates aren't worth taking. Anyone else feel differently?

 

[Hypersmurf]

I mean, is being an ogre really worth 5 character levels?[/B]

For our viewers out there who are confused, "Ogre" is a template that can be added to any corporeal ogre with an intelligence score of 1 or more (hereafter referred to as the "base creature"). The creature's type changes to "giant" (if it was not already). It uses all the base creature's statistics and special abilities.

-Hyp.

 

[hammymchamham]

maybe because its fun to play a strange creature sometimes?

 

[Xarlen]

You're talking about Monster races, not just templates.

I'd have to agree in many cases... Except when you look at something like, say, the Half-Fiend. +3 character levels (I do not go by the Dragon listings), and the spell-like abilities that rise with levels?

Aasimer (or Tiefling) fighters have that benefit of being Outsiders, and thus can't be targeted by some of those lower-level Will-save busters. The energy resistances (Though minor) do help. And, the darkness ability of a Tiefling is useful.

While the +3 for Natural Werewolves doesn't really give a whole lot, it is, at least, Balanced. The PNPC ranger/fighter tank does real well for herself. That Damage Resistance really goes the mile. The stat adjustments are nice, too.

The +3 for Half-dragons can go the extra mile. The half-dragon in our party actually didn't twink out, and went for the Rogue approach, as opposed to monopolizing the STR bonus. A half-dragon (red) fighter can be frickin' scary, even worse on a barbarian (She chose Silver dragon, btw).

But yes, a lot of monster races and templates just ain't worth it. But, remember... It's COOL.

 

[hammymchamham]

But, remember... It's COOL.

yes, my favorite race is an ecl +3, and if I am able to play one, I'll give up 3 levels. (yes, I am currently playing one)

 

[Hypersmurf]

yes, my favorite race is an ecl +3, and if I am able to play one, I'll give up 3 levels. (yes, I am currently playing one)

An ECL +3 Gnome?

-Hyp.

 

[hammymchamham]

Svirfneblin

 

[Crothian]

The big problem with races and templates is they are all over the place balance wise. Some the ecl is way high, others way low. And it's nopt always possible to tell without playing them for a few weeks. I played a race I though would be strong for +1 ecl, but after a few weeks I learned that they really should be +0.

 

[James McMurray]

It all depends on the race really. I could see playing a 6th level character taht was a 1st level Ogre fighter. A few bonuses you didn't mention:

- Your reach can't be disarmed.
- You can threaten 15' if you have a reach weapon (Spiked chain anyone?)
- Your weapons are larger, and thus do more damage.
- Size bonus to grapples, trips, and bull rushes.
- Large and in Charge feat. Combined with a 15' (and / or Knockdown / Combat Reflexes) reach you make it incredibly hard to get near you.
- You don't have to spend money on natural armor items, and can therefore get other stuff instead.

Your BAB may lag behind, but this will be partially offset by higher strength. Your skills will lag behind, but a fighter's skill always do. Your hit points may lag behind, but this will be partially offset by a higher con and natural armor.

Heck, just talking about it makes me want to make an Ogre fighter in a campaign at some point. Of course, it had better be a fairly combat intensive campaign.

I think if you took a PC ogre fighter 1 and put him up against a human fighter 1, the battle would be fairly even (assuming the characters were built with the same level of twinkdom of course).

Also, the outsider races may look a little better when you realize it means the party wizard can polymorph you into an outsider. An aasimar paladin Polymorphed into a Planetar would be a terrifying thing for a DM to have to deal with (trust me, my campaign had a similar situation at one point).

 

[Hypersmurf]

Heck, just talking about it makes me want to make an Ogre fighter in a campaign at some point. Of course, it had better be a fairly combat intensive campaign.

Don't forget to give him the "Ogre" template

-Hyp.