D&D (2024) Testing against the Gold Dragon

Is there any possible way we can take ALL of this commentary into the several other threads about MM monsters and dragons, and leave this thread to the actual test being conducted (both direct commentary/questions and the actual test rsults).

It is damn annoying to come in to look at the test and have to wade through 6 pages of other discussion.
 

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It doesn't need to drop the monk at all to make it work. But I have to admit, I know next to nothing about monks and what they can do!

Yes, I agree on this. That being said, if my understanding was correct above (and it likely is not), the roles are mostly reversed with the dragon taking the monk out in 4-5 rounds and the dragon taking no damage. Regardless, high CR threats need to hit harder!

I am getting excited to leave CR behind and focus on design monsters by level instead!
We will probably see harder hitting high level foes. In the video they said how tricky it is to balance the secomd breath weapon.

So my guess: chromatic dragons do more damage in general in some way, while metallica have different ways to control the flow of battle.

And look at the puny arms and the little wings. It does not need to be that hard hitting.
 

1737413743621.png

At the end of the Dead Luca's Turn the Dragon uses Guiding Bolt on Ellidira (she has three quarter cover from the current angle I checked) she gets hit and loses concentration on the sword she is not lucky.

1737414131744.png


Loonas uses his tactical shift to catch up again, and is much more unlucky with his attacks against the Dragon, he can turn one of them into a hit, but it does not solve the problems with others missing. He action surges to try and get more damage in, and takes only minor damage from the Pounce in return.

1737414546337.png


Belemur is brough back near the Dragon and quickly knocked unconscious before he can start healing anyone. Some more hits go into the fighter as well from the Dragon. Elidria tries to blast the Dragon with an upcasted Witch Bolt but misses. At the end of her turn the Dragon tries to banish Loomas again and even with Indomitable he fails again (Man I didn't expect him to fail with an Indomitable ever). Belamur fails his death save, and the Dragon misses with Guiding Bolt cause of a Nat 1.
 


I gave you the numbers - there's nothing complicated about them. Level 20 mercy monk with bracers of defence, eldritch claw tattoo, and ring of protection. Bog standard feat choices - ability upgrades to max (so dex/wisdom 24/24). I don't think you need to see the character sheet - all I did was take my level 12 character and bump them to level 20. Standard array to start.
Well, a lot of it you didn't though. And you made a bunch of assumptions based on a toe to toe fight...

It is so hard to say:

My ability scores are blank, blank, blank. (Without your ability scores, I don't know your saves.)
And for my ASI feats I took blank, blank, blank.

You assume the monk goes first. Why? Dragon is +16, your monk is +7 at best for all I know. Now there might be more going on to validate your assumption, but without giving me the character sheet I have no way of knowing.

I figured a screen shot of the character sheet would be the easiest way to give the missing information. 🤷‍♂️ I guess that was asking too much.

There's nothing it can do to the monk at 100 feet, either. Like, at all.
If you think that, no wonder you think you'd win easily.

And since, as I started with, these are mental exercises that I do when I have insomnia, "what would happen if a dragon flew 100' above my monk at level 20?" isn't going to help me much. I do exercises like, "could my level 12 monk solo a storm giant?" (yes, easily) or, when this stat block came out, "hmmm...what about that dragon?"
Yeah, but when you make a blanket claim, check your numbers and back it up, and share all the information so others can confirm you're not making mistakes. Otherwise, your claim is bunk IMO.

If the dragon was immune to poison, it would be a different story, though the monk might still win. I should math it out with an elemental monk, since that takes flying off the table for the dragon.
The poison thing isn't as big an issue IMO as you think, but until I run the numbers (so to say) I couldn't know for certain.

Long story short: high level monks are OP! IMO.
LOL of course they are! You realized that shortly after you started playing them and said so in other threads. Despite what some people think, monks were already very strong PCs IME, and now they are ridiculous. No argument there. ;)

And for what it's worth, I'm not the only one who disagress about this, so with all the info I can either refute your claim or verify it. Your choice.
 

I don't want to start a whole new thread for just oen question, so i will ask here:

What is the power creep for 2024 compared to 2014? More specifically, if I run a 2014 adventure, do I need to adjust encounters or consider the party a level higher or anything?

Thanks.
Off-hand I would say yes, very much so. Few classes AFAIK really had many nerfs, while others got sigficiant, if not vital, upgrades.

My best guess is plan on any 2014 encounter in a 2014 adventure to be one category less in difficulty. So, if it was deadly in 2014, I think it would be hard in 2024.
 

It won't work any percent. It doesn't speed the fight up, it slows it down.
Statistically it will work some of the time. But the odds do appear to be in the monks favor (and I am not really familiar with what a monk can do).

However, so far everything you have suggested (on the monk's side) is avoidable whenever the dragon gets a banish in if the dragon just uses guiding bolt (120 range) it can avoid the monk completely as the monk would to have a 200 ft. attack range to make it work. So again it is doing a little less force and radiant damage, but the monk can't do anything any round after banish is effective. And that is not even with using banish shenanigans.
 

View attachment 393668
At the end of the Dead Luca's Turn the Dragon uses Guiding Bolt on Ellidira (she has three quarter cover from the current angle I checked) she gets hit and loses concentration on the sword she is not lucky.

View attachment 393670

Loonas uses his tactical shift to catch up again, and is much more unlucky with his attacks against the Dragon, he can turn one of them into a hit, but it does not solve the problems with others missing. He action surges to try and get more damage in, and takes only minor damage from the Pounce in return.

View attachment 393671

Belemur is brough back near the Dragon and quickly knocked unconscious before he can start healing anyone. Some more hits go into the fighter as well from the Dragon. Elidria tries to blast the Dragon with an upcasted Witch Bolt but misses. At the end of her turn the Dragon tries to banish Loomas again and even with Indomitable he fails again (Man I didn't expect him to fail with an Indomitable ever). Belamur fails his death save, and the Dragon misses with Guiding Bolt cause of a Nat 1.
Thank you for ignoring all of the chatter and continuing to move forward with this project!
 

View attachment 393668
At the end of the Dead Luca's Turn the Dragon uses Guiding Bolt on Ellidira (she has three quarter cover from the current angle I checked) she gets hit and loses concentration on the sword she is not lucky.

View attachment 393670

Loonas uses his tactical shift to catch up again, and is much more unlucky with his attacks against the Dragon, he can turn one of them into a hit, but it does not solve the problems with others missing. He action surges to try and get more damage in, and takes only minor damage from the Pounce in return.

View attachment 393671

Belemur is brough back near the Dragon and quickly knocked unconscious before he can start healing anyone. Some more hits go into the fighter as well from the Dragon. Elidria tries to blast the Dragon with an upcasted Witch Bolt but misses. At the end of her turn the Dragon tries to banish Loomas again and even with Indomitable he fails again (Man I didn't expect him to fail with an Indomitable ever). Belamur fails his death save, and the Dragon misses with Guiding Bolt cause of a Nat 1.
This is so much closer then I anticipated, and Loomas being banished might actually lead to a tpk depending on what happens the next few rounds. Good stuff so far.
 

ASIDE: Monk Vs. AGD

So... just a quick thought, and I don't know if this would work, but could the dragon just shapechange into a 20th-level "mirror" monk and kick the other monk's butt? I mean, it would be practically identical but with over 500 hp. Seems like an auto-win for the drgaon if it can... 🤷‍♂️

Or with Stunning Strike would it just come down to who wins initiative?
 

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