Testing The Correlation Between Class Preference And 4E Love/Hate

[JackSmithIV]

I pick option 3.

I am a Dungeon Master by first choice, and put myself in that category for all reasons related to my liking of 4e. But if you'd asked me during 3e what class I would like to play, it would be the more spellcaster-like classes, where as now I'd be happy to play anything.

 

[T. Foster]

Umm, OD&D combat was Chainmail, which used minis and rulers. Sure, it had an optional combat system in the rules, but the assumption was that you were using Chainmail to conduct your combats and an entirely seperate game for exploration. Revising history is unkind to historians.

Let's also remember that the original covers for the OD&D books had "playable with Paper and Pencil [/b]and Miniature Figurines[/b]" right under Dungeons & Dragons.

The use of paper, pencil and map boards are standard. Miniature figures can be added if the players have them available and so desire, but miniatures are not required, only esthetically pleasing

The mention of minis on the box-top is marketing copy (so retailers would know what to do with the game) and the Chainmail references (the Fighting Capability table and movement & ranges being given in inches) are there for backwards compatibility -- to convince fans of the earlier game to give the new one a chance. Per Gary himself and various participants in the original Greyhawk campaign (including Rob Kuntz and Mike "OldGeezer" Mornard) they actually considered Chainmail and D&D two separate games and didn't really mix them -- when playing D&D they always used the "alternate combat system" and never used minis (though apparently Dave Arneson did, and also employed some proto-LARP techniques -- taking the players into another room and having them act out what their characters were doing). See also this quote from Gygax in The Dragon:

For about two years D&D was played without benefit of any visual aids by the majority of enthusiasts. They held literally that it was a paper and pencil game, and if some particular situation arose which demanded more than verbalization, they would draw or place dice as tokens in order to picture the conditions. In 1976 a movement began among D&Ders to portray characters with actual miniature figurines. Miniature figure manufacturers began to provide more and more models aimed at the D&D market — characters, monsters, weapons, dungeon furnishings, etc. Availability sparked interest, and the obvious benefits of using figures became apparent: Distances could be pinned down, opponents were obvious, and a certain extra excitement was generated by use of painted castings of what players “saw”. Because of the return of miniatures to D&D, the game is tending to come full circle; back to table top battles not unlike those which were first fought with D&D’s parent, CHAINMAIL’s “Fantasy Supplement”, now occurring quite regularly.

The idea that OD&D assumed or required minis, like the idea that the OD&D rules are primarily about combat, is a myth.

 

[lutecius]

I forked this thread with an actual poll.

Your poll makes different assumptions. "Dissatisfied with 4E" =/= "prefer 3E"

I generally prefer spellcasting types and dislike 4e.
But I do think 3e casters had balance issues and wasn't fond of vancian casting.

My main problem with 4e is that, addressing the former it made aspects of the latter more prevalent. Now every class is vancian-ish, including non-casters, and 3e-sorcerer alternatives are impossible because this class uniformity is what 4e’s balance relies on.

So I’m not sure if that counts as "prefers 3e" or "edition neutral".

 

[Raven Crowking]

my point was that, in the case of superhero genre, there are also different power sources.

phb5?

:d

 

[Set]

Eh, there might be a slight correlation, but in some sense it's quite a dismissive hypothesis. It smacks of an attempt to dismiss 4E critics who don't like the changes to spellcasters, by painting them as being upset that their characters can't dominate play anymore.

Yeah, I've noticed that the posts that are getting any response at all are only getting nitpicked to death on minor example details, and that anything not controversial is being ignored.

As with pretty much every other thread asking for opinions about gamer's preferences regarding 4E, it's a trap being used to beat people over the head about being wrong for not liking the same thing as everybody else.