D&D 4E Testing "Try 4e" house rules

[JohnSnow]

You need some other kind of rule that prevents certain situations where being extremely hard to hit (only on a 20) means that you're only hit 5% of the time, but are critted 100% of the time.

I think this is the situation that helped develop the critical confirmation rule in the first place.

Perhaps you could add a rule that requires you to be able to at least hit the monsters AC with a 16 or better. Unfortunately, that means you can't critical a monster with a very high AC at all, which doesn't seem like much fun.

Or you just decide it's not a problem. If you can only hit on a 20, only supremely lucky hits are going to do any damage. It's the "Smaug" or "Achilles" rule.

If I can only hit my opponent with a Natural 20, then I'm only going to do damage if I find the only chink in his defense. And if I'm that lucky, the hit should be a crit.

It doesn't bother me, especially using Fourth Edition's "Critical hits maximize damage" rule.

 

[rkanodia]

Or you just decide it's not a problem. If you can only hit on a 20, only supremely lucky hits are going to do any damage. It's the "Smaug" or "Achilles" rule.

If I can only hit my opponent with a Natural 20, then I'm only going to do damage if I find the only chink in his defense. And if I'm that lucky, the hit should be a crit.

It doesn't bother me, especially using Fourth Edition's "Critical hits maximize damage" rule.

Not to mention that the relatively 'flattened' progressions of attack bonus and AC mean that 'only hit on a 20' should be a rare event, at any level of gameplay.

 

[Crashy75]

Do you use any rules to let rogues sneak attack previously unsneak attackable foes such as undead and plants? I plan to do that if I ever run 3e again, along with a lot of other 4e inspired ideas such as simpler monsters.

I agree. I would even give the rogue free skill tricks at x levels (I figure they're the beginnings of the rogues per encounter powers.)

I wish there was a simple mechanic to ease spellcaster multiclassing. Can't think of anything other than caster level= previous caster level + 1/2 other levels. It's not really that much, but it's better than nothing.

 

[Captain Eru]

I agree. I would even give the rogue free skill tricks at x levels (I figure they're the beginnings of the rogues per encounter powers.)

I wish there was a simple mechanic to ease spellcaster multiclassing. Can't think of anything other than caster level= previous caster level + 1/2 other levels. It's not really that much, but it's better than nothing.

Speaking as someone who’s played more than his fair share of multiclass characters, I feel your pain. But it’s been hammered into me repeatedly that multi-classing, at least in Third Edition, only creates a character who is weaker than he or she could be. While yes, for a number of levels, there are huge benefits, but as you get higher up, the non-multi-class characters outdistance you. A good 10th level Fighter or a good 10th level Wizard will tear apart a 5th level Fighter/5th level Wizard.

The way it’s been explained to me, multi-classing is not continuing your studies in one field, it’s ignoring them completely to focus on something else. There is a correlation: the greater the distance between the two, the greater the effect. A sorcerer who becomes a wizard suffers less in his sorcery than a sorcerer who becomes a monk, for example. The only real solution is to come up with some kind of house rule, where you get the first level multi-class character benefits as described in the back of Chapter 3 of the Player’s Handbook.

 

[Naszir]

Our group is kicking around the following idea:
Confirmation rolls are no longer needed. A weapon does critical damage on its former threat range. Instead of rolling additional damage just add ½ of the total maximum dice value as bonus damage, no more doubling other damage like the weapon plus, strength etc. Undead, constructs and any creatures that one can make a case for hitting sensitive spots are no longer immune to critical hits. Oozes for example would still be exempt

for example
'crit' with a d8 weapon that does x2. add 4 to damage roll
'crit' with a d12 weapon that does x3. add 12 to damage roll

I've thought of something similar:

Threat Ranges are now Crit Ranges.

Roll within the Crit Range but not a nat 20 and you do maximum weapon damage.

Roll a nat 20 and you do max damage +1d6 bonus damage for each multiplier + strength bonus for each mulitplier.

If you can only hit on a nat 20 you roll the damage dice as normal. There is still a chance you do max damage.

 

[Zelc]

The way it’s been explained to me, multi-classing is not continuing your studies in one field, it’s ignoring them completely to focus on something else. There is a correlation: the greater the distance between the two, the greater the effect. A sorcerer who becomes a wizard suffers less in his sorcery than a sorcerer who becomes a monk, for example. The only real solution is to come up with some kind of house rule, where you get the first level multi-class character benefits as described in the back of Chapter 3 of the Player’s Handbook.

Well, this is true for casters, but for melee characters, rampant multiclassing can be a good thing. You can pick up quite a few abilities while meeting prerequisites for a Prestige Class.

 

[MerricB]

Do you use any rules to let rogues sneak attack previously unsneak attackable foes such as undead and plants? I plan to do that if I ever run 3e again, along with a lot of other 4e inspired ideas such as simpler monsters.

The Magic Item Compendium and its crystals that allow sneak attacking of Undead & Golems fix that problem.

You could try something like this for critical hits:

Unfortunately, such changes a lot of balance features about 3e. I have characters who have built their characters to crit on 15-20 (and gain extra benefits when they crit), and it would disturb the game and balance way too far to try getting a 4e-ish rule... which ultimately wouldn't be very 4e-ish.

Cheers!

 

[Mighty Veil]

I'm a day or week away from doing my last 3.5 campaign. I surprised myself, I'm doing the Realms, the Cormyr, Shadowdale, Anourach adventures. I'm going to try out some 4e like rules.

I'm simplifying races' racial traits, tinkered with classes (mostly to fit these house rules), shorter skill list, which I did already in my previous campaign long ago. Worked fine. Death and dying rule, like yourself. Simplified critical hits, saving throws are a defense, save AC's. Spell casters roll a d20 vs. the AC needed (Fort, Ref, Will, AC, Touch, Flat footed).

I was going to go with more at firsts but figured not to go too many in the end. Just ones that would speed up combat.

 

[Snarls-at-Fleas]

Right now I'm running a 3.75 Expedition to Castle Ravenloft.
We use lots of 4E like houserules like:

- Second Wind
- Death & Dying
- Powers for all Classes (mostly used like SWSE Force powers)
- Criticals (no confirmation and max damage)
- Healing Prayers (unlimited healing (1d8/lvl), using swift action, range - sight)
- 1-1-1 diagonals
- Some other minor rules


At first it seems that PCs are invulnerable and nothing can affect them much. Well in a couple of first fights it really seemed so, but then I changed the monsters (adding +5 attack, doubling damage and giving them some powers from new DDM cards) and then the fun began.
Combats became furious with lots of options and defferent actions. PCs are not fragile, but still can be punished very hard. Every combat begins almost at full-strength, but that doesn't make any less dangerous.
Most of my players like the change and so do I.

 

[baradtgnome]

I've thought of something similar:

Threat Ranges are now Crit Ranges.

Roll within the Crit Range but not a nat 20 and you do maximum weapon damage.

Roll a nat 20 and you do max damage +1d6 bonus damage for each multiplier + strength bonus for each mulitplier.

If you can only hit on a nat 20 you roll the damage dice as normal. There is still a chance you do max damage.

That may achieve the flavor you want, but does require additional rolls, and calculations.

We first determined what we were trying to solve:
-The extra die role of a critical threat slows the game down
-Critical hits are sometimes are disappointing, you can roll poorly on the original hit & the critical.
-Too many creatures are immune to critical hits, this is especially less fun for the rogue.
-Critical damage when a character has loads of spell buffs & abilities takes a while to figure out, and maybe overpowered.

We tried to keep some benefit consistant with the weapons original threat intent in 3e. simply giving max damage when you could get max damage on any hit didn't have the feel we wanted. But yes, you could still roll a 1 on your orginal roll.