That's a big ol' bear!

[(contact)]

I'm sure this has been debated to death, but it's new to me, and I can't find any appropriate archived thread.

What limits the druid spell Animal Growth? Could a 9th level druid enlarge his 18 HD Animal Companion? That seems extremely powerful to me, and I'm looking for everyone's opinion.

 

[Darkness]

I agree that some kind of limit might be a good idea; taken to its logical extreme, a 20th-level druid could - if he was able to get such an animal companion - double his 40-HD animal companion (a whale, maybe?) to 80 HD by means of this spell.

 

[Wippit Guud]

Well, a Dire Tiger can advance to 48 HD... grab a 40 HD one and watch it eat titans...

 

[Fade]

Square-cube law anyone?

After all, it's an animal, not a magical beast. So its bones are made out of bone, not some super-strong exotic substance.

 

[Axiomatic Unicorn]

Square-cube law anyone?

After all, it's an animal, not a magical beast. So its bones are made out of bone, not some super-strong exotic substance.

I would think the magic that made the animal grow would qualify as a "super-strong exotic substance".

Not to mention, that if you try to force real world physics on the game, the 40 HD Dire Tiger would not exist to be a target of the spell in the first place.

 

[The Iron Mark]

Magic anyone? Forget most of that physics crap you learned, now magic does what it wants to do.

 

[Hand of Vecna]

"Technology lets us harness the laws of nature; Magic allows us to break them"

or

Science discovers the rules, Technology uses them, and Magic breaks them.


just my 2 coppers, sorry to have gotten so off-topic...

 

[Fade]

I agree with all that, which is why we have things like Great Wyrms. But an animal is only an animal, it isn't magical, so it should act normally.

 

[Wippit Guud]

And it does act normally. It acts exactly like a tiger would act.

It's just a really really REALLY big tiger.

 

[RedShirtNo5]

I agree with all that, which is why we have things like Great Wyrms. But an animal is only an animal, it isn't magical, so it should act normally.

First, why assume that a square-cube law even exists in a fantasy universe? Stuff on a material plane can be made out of fire, water, earth and air instead of atoms. Even for "natural" creatures, you can throw conventional physics and chemistry out the window.

Second, there's a spell on the animal. If spells can violate laws such as conversation of energy, I don't see the square-cube law as much of a problem.

Finally, on point, Animal Growth does note that "This spell does not affect Colossal creatures." That seems like a pretty clear indicatation that the designers intended the spell to work on anything smaller (regardless of hit dice).

I agree it could be powerful and that it is slightly unusual. Most other "buffing" spells provide a flat bonus instead of a bonus that increases with the strength of the creature. But the creature should also become the center of attention for a targeted dispel magic. Maybe the best thing is to run it as written and find out.

-RedShirt

 

[Piratecat]

I wanna see Vognu the toad* slapped with this spell! Of course, he's dead, but one can always hope.

There are no limits that I know of. I used it on a dire bear... right before someone cast harm on it. Spells like this are why you carry a dispel magic scroll or three.

- PC


* The Risen Goddess story hour

 

[SpikeyFreak]

Well, there is a HD limit on animal companion, errr animal friendship.....

--Conclusionless Spikey

 

[Darkness]

I wanna see Vognu the toad* slapped with this spell! Of course, he's dead, but one can always hope.
...
* The Risen Goddess story hour

Was Vognu the toad smaller than gargantuan, and of the type "animal?"

 

[Axiomatic Unicorn]

I agree with all that, which is why we have things like Great Wyrms. But an animal is only an animal, it isn't magical, so it should act normally.

Ok, then how do you explain a 100 ton, 60 foot long 48 HD dire tiger. Straight out of the MM, no magic required.

Square-Cube law says you get two stopwatches and see if he dies of suffocation or heat stroke first.

D&D law says you stand still or die tired.

 

[Forrester]

I agree that some kind of limit might be a good idea; taken to its logical extreme, a 20th-level druid could - if he was able to get such an animal companion - double his 40-HD animal companion (a whale, maybe?) to 80 HD by means of this spell.

. . . which is why they errata'd Animal Friendship to limit druids to animal companions that have HD equal to their level, not double their level.

 

[Ketjak]

First, why assume that a square-cube law even exists in a fantasy universe? Stuff on a material plane can be made out of fire, water, earth and air instead of atoms. Even for "natural" creatures, you can throw conventional physics and chemistry out the window.

[snip]

-RedShirt

Technically, things made out of water, earth, and air are made out of atoms.

- Ketjak