The 10-foot pole, antithesis of what adventuring should be?

[Mark CMG]

It seems a style focusing more on Player vs. DM (. . .)

I guess if someone is used to adversarial DMs that might be true but it's really just about approaching certain challenges in a certain manner. Not a big deal if it isn't your style but it's hardly something to decry if it is the approach some others prefer to take.

 

[shilsen]

I think folks simply don't realize what kind of hindrance a 10' poll really is in an action-adventure environment.

Heck, even a 3 question poll is hard for people to handle on ENWorld, leave along a 10' poll in a dungeon

 

[Nalfeshnee]

i see nothing wrong with a 10 ft pole, though i do feel players who continuously take them may be suffering at the hands of an evil DM. Also, carrying a 10 ft pole around a dungeon can be a bit unweildy and heavy(ish).

No one i've roleplayed with in person has ever taken a 10 ft pole, but then again my group does not tend to use many traps (since they slow down play too much, especially if there's a rogue in th party checking every 5 ft. step). agian: perhaps a result of the 10 ft pole is dungeons with too many traps

 

[Felon]

When I want to play cinematic or high fantasy or something else, other games seem more appropriate.

If you don't think D&D constitutes "high fantasy", then your definition of the term deviates wildly from the norm. Grim n' gritty it ain't.

I've never seen what was so intelligent about 10-foot pole style play. Methodical, yes. Obsessive compulsive, yes. Intelligent, no. It seems more like a playstyle where you have a checklist of things to do when you come across any given situation, not one where you think on your toes to solve delimmas. Then when you make a mistake and miss a trap or whatever, you add what would have solved that to your checklist of things to do.

That's a very good point, and I find it commendable that you'd stop by to participate in a thread that started by quoting you out-of-context.

Yes, the SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) approach to the dungeon gets tedious. On the other hand, if dungeon dangers are effectively thwarted by SOP more often than not, then the dungeon might be the root of the problem, not the players' approach to tackling it. The question is, why are they taking that approach? Are they doing it because they enjoy being methodical, or does it just happen to be the most effective way to succeed? If they enjoy being methodical, then maybe this isn't really a problem at all.

If they're doing it out of perceived necessity, then it's time to re-examine those dungeons. Are characters faced with ignominious death at every turn? Even a single 100-foot deep pit that drops into a vat of acid in the middle of a hall is enough to justify extreme caution. If the only way to avoid this Reflex-save-or-die deathtrap (which is not a very heroic way to go) is to prod with a 10-foot pole, then as a player I'm inclined to do that. Even without the pole, the rogue is going to scour every 5-by-5 square in front of him.

Having said that, there are certainly a couple of ways to keep players on their toes. First and foremost is to keep things fast-paced so they don't have time to run through a checklist. Give them a life-or-death deadline that doesn't allow them to proceed laxidasically. Have guards patrol the corridors regularly, carrying horns to sound an alarm if they encounter intruders. Those are the conditions heroes typically have to operate under; they can't always proceed on their own terms.

The other is to simply bear the checklist in mind and arrange hazards so that the SOP winds up looking like a POS sometimes. After all, the guys who design elaborate dungeons probably know about that checklist as well. Why would they design all of their deathtraps so that a poke from ten feet away would be enough to bypass it? They'd make one of their pits thirty feet wide. They'd make some require a few hundred pounds of pressure to activate. They'd design some not to activate while anyone's standing just outside of the hazard zone. The SOP shouldn't be worthless (players should benefit from being prepared), there just need to be enough curveballs that they disengage the auto-pilot.

 

[PapersAndPaychecks]

Usually there's someone in the party with a polearm (even if it's only a 7ft spear), and bringing a spare haft is a sensible precaution even if you never probe ahead.

10ft poles with burning torches lashed to them are a great way of getting rid of green slime colonies.

 

[mmadsen]

I find ThirdWizard's point of view, that the 10-foot pole is abhorrent and the antithesis of adventuring, quite odd, and I wonder if the two sides of the fence on this issue might be defined by how much interest in (and knowledge of) real adventurers people have -- conquistadors like Cortes and Pizarro, mountaineers like Hillary, polar explorers like Peary, etc.

Real-life adventuring has a tremendous logistical component.

 

[ThirdWizard]

That's a very good point, and I find it commendable that you'd stop by to participate in a thread that started by quoting you out-of-context.

I was in a good mood yesterday.

The question is, why are they taking that approach? Are they doing it because they enjoy being methodical, or does it just happen to be the most effective way to succeed?

It seems from when people talk about it, that it leans toward the most effective way to succeed, but that they want it to be the most effective way to succeed. Perhaps this is what I find so bad about the concept: the constant need for the DM to create a deadlier and deadlier dungeon because the SOP gets better and better means the Players grow more and more dependant on the SOP. It's a never ending cycle that reinforces the 10-foot pole style play constantly.

I find ThirdWizard'ss point of view, that the 10-foot pole is abhorrent and the antithesis of adventuring, quite odd, and I wonder if the two sides of the fence on this issue might be defined by how much interest in (and knowledge of) real adventurers people have -- conquistadors like Cortes and Pizarro, mountaineers like Hillary, polar explorers like Peary, etc.

Real-life adventuring has a tremendous logistical component.

Real life rarely makes for an exciting game, I think. My goal isn't to recreate a historical game. Now, if you were playing in a game where the PCs are conquistadors hunting Aztec gold, then alright, you may have a point. But, that's not what I'm playing. The Fellowship didn't poke everything with a 10 foot pole when going through Moria, for example.

I don't want my games to have a tremondous logistical component.

 

[Aaron L]

10 foot poles are great tools, for the right character. An overly zealous cursading leric, I dotn see as carying one. But a hardened adventuring fighter who goes ruin exploring professionally, they should always carry one when they enter a dungeon.

It depends on the character.

 

[Templetroll]

Consider Indiana Jones. His 'ten-foot pole' is research. If he does his research and pays attention to it then traps are usually not a problem. He usually is caught off-guard by people, which a ten-foot pole is only usefull for smacking them after the betrayal.

Also, note, the main trap with that rolling ball was not just one save; it looked to be a few saves and those depended on actions taken. That would be a great bit of adventuring in a D&D dungeon.

 

[The Red Priest]

Okay. Toss the 10' pole out of your game.

Now, dump that 50' rope. Climbing rope is for pansies. You're a danged spider on the wall for pete's sake. Spikes? Aaaghh.. who needs 'em? If you can't defeat everything that comes barging through that door, then you must have a killer DM. He's out to get ya.

Wait. A door? Don't tell me we're actually in a dungeon? Sheesh.. what kind of role-playing game is this? It's much more important to rub elbows with the Duke and his entourage at the banquet. You know. That banquet your character was invited to, because the Duke needs you to go rescue his daughter/son/wife/brother/sister/mother/father/best friend/valet/whatever from the next duchy/kingdom/bandit lair/wherever. Oh yeah. And while your characer is poncing around like it's at a ren fest, do be good enough to find out how much garlic the chef put in the guzpacho at the banquet for me will you? Now that's what role-playing's all about.

Never use a 10' pole to figure out something on your own, when you can just make some skill/feat/stat roll to take care of it for you. There's excitement and a sense of adventure and accomplishment for ya!!