D&D (2024) The 2014 vs 2024 PHB Compatibility Thread

[UngeheuerLich]

I am still really wondering why some people hate the idea that a 10 year old game gets a little doover...

there are already posts that imoly that all it is is a cash grab...

of course they wamt to sell new books. Which makes sense for a company.

No one is forced to upgrade and buy new book. Especially when the biggest complainers are able to just modify content of older books themselves.

I have played 3.5 with the srd and 3.0 books for quite a while with no problems.

The only place where you notice some friction is dndbeyond... but that is also something the same people don't like...

To the actual topic: in my opinion backwards compatibility seems way higher than in back in 3.5 where quite some player facing rules changed:

• The skill list changed
• spell levels (and schools) of a lot of spells changed. Some spells were broken into parts.
• weapon sizes were introduced.

 

[Azzy]

I am still really wondering why some people hate the idea that a 10 year old game gets a little doover...

there are already posts that imoly that all it is is a cash grab...

of course they wamt to sell new books. Which makes sense for a company.

No one is forced to upgrade and buy new book. Especially when the biggest complainers are able to just modify content of older books themselves.

I have played 3.5 with the srd and 3.0 books for quite a while with no problems.

The only place where you notice some friction is dndbeyond... but that is also something the same people don't like...

To the actual topic: in my opinion backwards compatibility seems way higher than in back in 3.5 where quite some player facing rules changed:

• The skill list changed
• spell levels (and schools) of a lot of spells changed. Some spells were broken into parts.
• weapon sizes were introduced.

I really disliked the change to weapons in 3.5e.

 

[Quickleaf]

They've been alternating between 2 definitions of backwards compatibility. Initially it was "use 2014 PCs alongside 2024 PCs no problem", then that was amended to what @JEB shared ("use 2014 adventures for 2024 PCs"). And now per the recent videos they're back to "use 2014 PCs alongside 2024 PCs no problem."

In the broadest blur-your-eyes-and-it's-true sense, yeah they're "compatible" (in the same way the AD&D1e Cavalier was "compatible", aka OP), but there's a significant power up happening between 2014 and 2024 characters. A good example is a 2024 fighter gets a bonus feat from background, weapon masteries, and their champion subclass is objectively superior to the 2014 champion.

It's not unworkable, and a GM like me running a "2014 game" at Xth level can just have 2024 PCs be at X-1 level to compensate... but you're never going to get the designers at WotC saying anything like that.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Will 2014 characters work with 2024 rules? Will 2024 characters work in a 2014 rules campaign? Will chocolate ever work with peanut butter? Bring your compatibility questions here!

1. Yes, but only with adaptation.
2. No, because they'll refer to new rules that don't exist.
3. It already does, so I'm not sure it's relevant.

I have no questions. The situation we ended up with is exactly what I've been saying it would be all along, despite numerous people on here insisting, up and down, that that was not the case--or even is not the case, here and now, because apparently the existence or absence of "Use Rope" is somehow VASTLY more important than the fact that races don't give stat bonuses anymore...

 

[Older Beholder]

They've been alternating between 2 definitions of backwards compatibility. Initially it was "use 2014 PCs alongside 2024 PCs no problem", then that was amended to what @JEB shared ("use 2014 adventures for 2024 PCs"). And now per the recent videos they're back to "use 2014 PCs alongside 2024 PCs no problem."

Sounds to me like they've been saying that you can use 2014 PC's alongside 2024 PC's AND you can use your 2014 adventures with 2024 characters, the whole time.

Not sure how these are mutually exclusive?

 

[Minigiant]

Backwards compatibility in my mind has always been You can use content from the old platform in the new platform.

You can use either 2014 or 2024 PCs or adventures using 2024 rules.

You can play PS1 and PS2 games on the PS2.

This was always what WOTC said .

The only addition they're saying now is that 2024 PCs cannot be used with 2014 rules because 2014 rules are missing many keywords attached. Most noticeable Weapon Mastery.

Power up is debatable as 2014 had some cheesy stuff. I think in general,

1. 2014 PCs have more raw dumb power due to access to 2014's OP stuff.
2. 2024 PCs have more options and are more versatile but less powerful with the same level of optimization.

2014 is 1d10
2024 is 2d4

 

[SlyFlourish]

Someone help me out. Do we take this to mean that all subclasses printed before the new 2024 Players Handbook will not be compatible with 2024 PHB characters? That is certainly different from what we heard at the summit last year and I believe what we’ve heard in previous videos that said you could use them with some modifications like ensuring they begin at 3rd level.

That would suck, frankly. There are hundreds, maybe thousands, of subclasses made instantly incompatible.

What about spells and magic items from older books or sources? What about magic items? Monsters? Backgrounds?

I’m not worried about mixing in stuff from the 2014 PHB so much but there are hundreds of 5e supplements out there with material I’d still like to use with 2024 D&D. I get that it wouldn’t always be a perfect fit and might take some tweaking but stating that it just won’t work is a problem.

 

[Neonchameleon]

I'm expecting that nobody will actually play 2014 characters in a 2024 campaign, because they'll be considered too mechanically weak, even if they technically still function. And I suspect that WotC wants it that way.

The rebalancing is on strong not extreme. Twilight Clerics, Bladesingers, Chronomancers, and Classic L2-4 Moon Druids, Sharpshooting Crossbow Experts, and PAM spear and shield padlocks will all remain very strong.

And no one was playing battleragers anyway.

 

[Leatherhead]

Monsters and magic items should be trivial to import (unless they reference an outmoded rule that is). As for characters I fully believe you can't simply mix-and-match 2024 and 2014 rules without significant effort.

One of the craziest things I have heard is that Artificers have seem to have lost access to Cure Wounds.

Source:

 

[Remathilis]

They nerfed some of the overpowered stuff from 2014.

Like greatweapon master, sharpshooter, and conjure 8 creatures.

So if your using a 2014 barbarian, I would keep the 2014 great weapon master feat. Which is not weak.

Bear in mind, I'm only discussing porting options that don't yet have a 2024 counterpart, in this instance sub classes where the bulk of power tuning tended upwards. I would personally never allow an option from 14 that has a 24 counterpart in using the 14 version for that exact reason, but I would be ok with letting a 24 wizard take the 14 necromancer (with some adjustments) until the 24 necromancer is released.