D&D (2024) So how do you remove disease in 5E 2024?

[Lanefan]

How do you get that idea? Have you ever been seasick? Food poisoned? Nauseated? Drunk? None of those are "diseases", but they certainly make you "sick".

In sequence: rarely, once, infrequently, and far too often.

And in saying this you're somewhat making my point for me: that poisoned and diseased should be separate conditions with separate parameters and different means of fixing.

Seasick, I'll grant, is a tough one as it's neither a poison nor a disease. Hmmm...maybe that implies that simple magics like Neutralize Poison or (when it existed) Cure Disease can't so simply fix it...I'll certainly take that one home to roost.

Other forms of nausea are almost always brought on by either a poison or a disease of some sort; and food poisoning and drunk are both clearly poison effects.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

In sequence: rarely, once, infrequently, and far too often.

Haw! I feel ya.

And in saying this you're somewhat making my point for me: that poisoned and diseased should be separate conditions with separate parameters and different means of fixing.

Sure. Well, I agree that they should have separate means of fixing, but not so much that there couldn't be a collective condition.

Seasick, I'll grant, is a tough one as it's neither a poison nor a disease. Hmmm...maybe that implies that simple magics like Neutralize Poison or (when it existed) Cure Disease can't so simply fix it...I'll certainly take that one home to roost.

There's also the possibility of concussed, which I can tell you from experience - is a lot like being really ill. Shock also - I have thrown up and passed out from injury.

Other forms of nausea are almost always brought on by either a poison or a disease of some sort; and food poisoning and drunk are both clearly poison effects.

Yeah, that's true. But it only goes to show - there are a number of ways to be "sickened".

Diseases, if they're to be worth anything in the game, almost always need more to them than a simple condition could cover, but that doesn't mean that they couldn't also give you a "sickened" condition. Certainly one as simple as "Rat Fever" (or whatever it's called in D&D these days).

 

[plecostomus]

Posting a few more Cleric spells since I feel like some of the current direction stems from someone staring really hard at 2014 Contagion text and possibly 2014 Raise Dead.

But what I would like to see is the 2024 DMG section on Diseases (or Contagions, since the word disease seems entirely avoided outside of one spell name).

The question of the "plot disease" that is not immediately solved by a Cleric/Paladin is the part the DMG needs to go into more, since that's what the DM may want to use for an adventure. And I'm also not sure if "magical contagion" means there is also "nonmagical contagion", or if all disease-like effects must be magical and/or replaced by the Poisoned condition (potentially with riders) in 2024.

The 2024 Contagion spell creates a magical contagion with the effect of Poisoned condition + riders, so it's not as simple as nonmagical disease = Poisoned condition.

There is also a single mention of "rot" in the 2024 Purify Food and Drink, seemingly replacing the concept of foodborne disease. We know why we don't eat the rotting hamburger in real life, but why mechanically don't we eat it in DnD? jk...maybe.

Some other Cleric spell changes related to diseases:

14 Detect Poison and Disease

For the duration, you can sense the presence and location of poisons, poisonous creatures, and diseases within 30 feet of you. You also identify the kind of poison, poisonous creature, or disease in each case.
The spell can penetrate most barriers, but it is blocked by 1 foot of stone, 1 inch of common metal, a thin sheet of lead, or 3 feet of wood or dirt.

24 Detect Poison and Disease

For the duration, you sense the location of poisons, poisonous or venomous creatures, and magical contagions within 30 feet of yourself. You sense the kind of poison, creature, or contagion in each case.
The spell is blocked by 1 foot of stone, dirt, or wood; 1 inch of metal; or a thin sheet of lead.

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14 Purify Food and Drink

All nonmagical food and drink within a 5-foot-radius sphere centered on a point of your choice within range is purified and rendered free of poison and disease.

24 Purify Food and Drink

You remove poison and rot from nonmagical food and drink in a 5-foot-radius Sphere centered on a point within range.

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14 Contagion

Your touch inflicts disease. Make a melee spell attack against a creature within your reach. On a hit, the target is poisoned.
At the end of each of the poisoned target’s turns, the target must make a Constitution saving throw. If the target succeeds on three of these saves, it is no longer poisoned, and the spell ends. If the target fails three of these saves, the target is no longer poisoned, but choose one of the diseases below. The target is subjected to the chosen disease for the spell’s duration.
Since this spell induces a natural disease in its target, any effect that removes a disease or otherwise ameliorates a disease’s effects apply to it.
-Blinding Sickness. Pain grips the creature’s mind, and its eyes turn milky white. The creature has disadvantage on Wisdom checks and Wisdom saving throws and is blinded.
-Filth Fever. A raging fever sweeps through the creature’s body. The creature has disadvantage on Strength checks, Strength saving throws, and attack rolls that use Strength.
-Flesh Rot. The creature’s flesh decays. The creature has disadvantage on Charisma checks and vulnerability to all damage.
-Mindfire. The creature’s mind becomes feverish. The creature has disadvantage on Intelligence checks and Intelligence saving throws, and the creature behaves as if under the effects of the confusion spell during combat.
-Seizure. The creature is overcome with shaking. The creature has disadvantage on Dexterity checks, Dexterity saving throws, and attack rolls that use Dexterity.
-Slimy Doom. The creature begins to bleed uncontrollably. The creature has disadvantage on Constitution checks and Constitution saving throws. In addition, whenever the creature takes damage, it is stunned until the end of its next turn.

24 Contagion

Your touch inflicts a magical contagion. The target must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or take 11d8 Necrotic damage and have the Poisoned condition. Also, choose one ability when you cast the spell. While Poisoned, the target has Disadvantage on saving throws made with the chosen ability.
The target must repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns until it gets three successes or failures. If the target succeeds on three of these saves, the spell ends on the target. If the target fails three of the saves, the spell lasts for 7 days on it.
Whenever the Poisoned target receives an effect that would end the Poisoned condition, the target must succeed on a Constitution saving throw, or the Poisoned condition doesn’t end on it.

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14 Raise Dead

You return a dead creature you touch to life, provided that it has been dead no longer than 10 days. If the creature's soul is both willing and at liberty to rejoin the body, the creature returns to life with 1 hit point.
This spell also neutralizes any poisons and cures nonmagical diseases that affected the creature at the time it died. This spell doesn't, however, remove magical diseases, curses, or similar effects; if these aren't first removed prior to casting the spell, they take effect when the creature returns to life. The spell can't return an undead creature to life.
This spell closes all mortal wounds, but it doesn't restore missing body parts. If the creature is lacking body parts or organs integral for its survival--its head, for instance--the spell automatically fails.
Coming back from the dead is an ordeal. The target takes a −4 penalty to all attack rolls, saving throws, and ability checks. Every time the target finishes a long rest, the penalty is reduced by 1 until it disappears.

24 Raise Dead

With a touch, you revive a dead creature if it has been dead no longer than 10 days and it wasn’t Undead when it died.
The creature returns to life with 1 Hit Point. This spell also neutralizes any poisons that affected the creature at the time of death.
This spell closes all mortal wounds, but it doesn’t restore missing body parts. If the creature is lacking body parts or organs integral for its survival—its head, for instance—the spell automatically fails.
Coming back from the dead is an ordeal. The target takes a −4 penalty to D20 Tests. Every time the target finishes a Long Rest, the penalty is reduced by 1 until it becomes 0.

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14 Heal

Choose a creature that you can see within range. A surge of positive energy washes through the creature, causing it to regain 70 hit points. This spell also ends blindness, deafness, and any diseases affecting the target. This spell has no effect on constructs or undead.
At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 7th level or higher, the amount of healing increases by 10 for each slot level above 6th.

24 Heal

Choose a creature that you can see within range. Positive energy washes through the target, restoring 70 Hit Points. This spell also ends the Blinded, Deafened, and Poisoned conditions on the target.
Using a Higher-Level Spell Slot. The healing increases by 10 for each spell slot level above 6.

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14 Heroes Feast

You bring forth a great feast, including magnificent food and drink. The feast takes 1 hour to consume and disappears at the end of that time, and the beneficial effects don’t set in until this hour is over. Up to twelve creatures can partake of the feast.
A creature that partakes of the feast gains several benefits. The creature is cured of all diseases and poison, becomes immune to poison and being frightened, and makes all Wisdom saving throws with advantage. Its hit point maximum also increases by 2d10, and it gains the same number of hit points. These benefits last for 24 hours.

24 Heroes Feast

You conjure a feast that appears on a surface in an unoccupied 10-foot Cube next to you. The feast takes 1 hour to consume and disappears at the end of that time, and the beneficial effects don’t set in until this hour is over. Up to twelve creatures can partake of the feast.
A creature that partakes gains several benefits, which last for 24 hours. The creature has Resistance to Poison damage, and it has Immunity to the Frightened and Poisoned conditions. Its Hit Point maximum also increases by 2d10, and it gains the same number of Hit Points.

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14 True Resurrection

You touch a creature that has been dead for no longer than 200 years and that died for any reason except old age. If the creature's soul is free and willing, the creature is restored to life with all its hit points.
This spell closes all wounds, neutralizes any poison, cures all diseases, and lifts any curses affecting the creature when it died. The spell replaces damaged or missing organs and limbs. If the creature was undead, it is restored to its non-undead form.
The spell can even provide a new body if the original no longer exists, in which case you must speak the creature's name. The creature then appears in an unoccupied space you choose within 10 feet of you.

24 True Resurrection

You touch a creature that has been dead for no longer than 200 years and that died for any reason except old age. The creature is revived with all its Hit Points.
This spell closes all wounds, neutralizes any poison, cures all magical contagions, and lifts any curses affecting the creature when it died. The spell replaces damaged or missing organs and limbs. If the creature was Undead, it is restored to its non-Undead form.
The spell can provide a new body if the original no longer exists, in which case you must speak the creature’s name. The creature then appears in an unoccupied space you choose within 10 feet of you.

 

[AK_Ambrian]

If/When I start DMing 5e2024 I will allow players with Herbalism Kit proficiency to cure or alleviate the symptoms of some diseases. They might know or be able to guess how to make concoctions that are natural remedies. Might also allow players with a poisoners kit proficiency to do so too as they would have some understanding of the effects of various plants and natural ingredients. And someone with medicine skill proficiency should be able to identify diseases like scurvy or anemia and be able to recommend methods to cure them. I'd also imagine that some species/races would have immunities to certain diseases. I mean a dragonborn must be biologically quite different to a human so I doubt that some diseases could easily spread between them.

 

[Lanefan]

There's also the possibility of concussed, which I can tell you from experience - is a lot like being really ill. Shock also - I have thrown up and passed out from injury.

Both of those should be fixable by curing the underlying injury, which is what Cure xxxxx Wounds spells are for.

Diseases, if they're to be worth anything in the game, almost always need more to them than a simple condition could cover, but that doesn't mean that they couldn't also give you a "sickened" condition. Certainly one as simple as "Rat Fever" (or whatever it's called in D&D these days).

My concern with shoehorning poisons and diseases together into one catch-all condition it that it'll lead to either or both of a) a single catch-all fix method or b) an awful lot of corner-case exceptions.

 

[kigmatzomat]

Yeah, if they use term "poisoned" as a condition for all "diseases", its a trivial thing. Easy to embrace or work around.
At the same time, it creates cognitive dissonance. Diseases are not poisons. My brain knows this and when I read otherwise it goes "huh"? But thats me.

One thing that drives me nuts about it is poisons are consumed, diseases are infectious. Ignoring all biological origin, diseases spread from person to person. It makes them scary. You can't "catch" poisoned from someone who is poisoned.

Natural language fail.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

In the previous editions the diseases caused a penalty to abilities scores, and now in 5e these cause levels of exhaution. Then lesser restaurartion could heal those lost levels of exhaution.

And the virus are like poison.

And about diseases there is a difference between ones caused by pathogens and the ones caused by internal biological failures, for example the diabetes or the cancer.

Other point is temples could be used as "wonder architecture", like magic item, because the believers need healing magic. Maybe the diseased would need to rest a long day in a special sacred room, but it would work and we shouldn't say it was broken about power.

 

[Azzy]

Oh, look what the cat dragged in.

 

[Bushviper]

I haven't read this thread, but I always found poisons, diseases, curses, etc. an avenue of DM'ing that is basically nullified by some extremely common player tools so I changed the entire system.

At my table, all the aforementioned afflictions have a DC that must be beaten for it to be removed. There's no standard way to set the DC, but there are numerous methods that make 'sense.'

Anyway, an example of my system.

For example - The group fighter has been poisoned and the Cleric wants to remove it Protection of Poison. The Cleric is level 5 with a Wisdom of 16 and the poison has a DC of 13. So, the Cleric would need to roll a 7 or more to remove the poison.

Pre-made items such as a potion of cure poison either has a cap of DC it can cure (i.e. up to DC 15) or has a bonus to the d20 roll (i.e. +5).

Some afflictions are so powerful that they require multiple (successful) casts and/or a specific reagent to be used in conjunction with the magic. Some might even require a specific location or environmental factor.

One of my players contracted lycanthropy and the only way to remove it was to cast Remove Curse (DC 16) under a full moon using wolfsbane as a material component.

This doesn't solve all the problems, but it does make these things a lot more interesting for both DM and player.

 

[Zaukrie]

Ok, I'm working on my fantastic diseases PDF.....question for you all.

Cure Minor Disease is a spell to cure "level 1 diseases" (I'll change level to a different name soon). This is stuff like the common cold or chicken pox......is this a first level spell, or a cantrip? These diseases never result in death, and are usually fully recovered from over time.