D&D 3E/3.5 The 3.5 sai - a piercing and/or bludgeoning weapon?

[Iku Rex]

Since some people seem unable to just report a potential error and leave it to WotC to work things out, I'll start a new thread for discussion of the sai. (So as to not clutter up the errata thread with a minor issue.)

The question is this: Should the sai deal piercing and/or bludgeoning damage.

In Oriental Adventures it deals bludgeoning damage.
In the (more recent) Arms and Equipment Guide it deals piercing damage. In the (even more recent) v3.5 Player's Handbook it deals bludgeoning damage.

After researching the issue (for a short while), I'd say it should deal both. The blunt end is used as a club, while the pointy end is used to pierce.

This website has some pictures describing the use of a sai. Note the throw and sequence 2-5 - clearly "piercing" attacks.

Yes, some sais are blunted. The question is, is there any reason why a character that actually uses sais in life-or-death combat would have sais with (severly) blunted tips? (As opposed to police officers or someone using it as a training tool.)

 

[Waldo]

It certainly shouldn't be just piercing. It is a bludgeoning weapon. Whether you include piercing seems more like a balance issue than a realism one.

I feel like you could jab someone with the end of your quarterstaff, too, but that doesn't make it a piercing weapon. The throwing part, that's just strange.

I'm fine with it just being a bludgeon.

 

[Iku Rex]

I feel like you could jab someone with the end of your quarterstaff, too, but that doesn't make it a piercing weapon.

True, but then again most quarterstaffs won't pierce your opponent either. The sai will.

The throwing part, that's just strange.

According to the PH, the sai is a thrown weapon, so it can't be that strange.

"... throwing the sai was a common technique, ..." : http://www.karate.org.yu/Sai jutsu.htm .

 

[Caliban]

I've never seen a sharpened Sai, and I watch a lot of martial art movies, and used to hang out in a few dojos with martial art weapons for sale.

 

[Waldo]

According to the PH, the sai is a thrown weapon, so it can't be that strange.

So it is. Well you learn something everyday.

As a side note. Other thrown and ranged weapons:
club
sling
light hammer
bolas

All bludgeoning. Just because you can throw a sai, doesn't mean it pierces anything. Maybe it just hurts a lot when the pommel hits you in the forehead.

"Who throws his shoe... honestly?"

 

[Tellerve]

That is a neat page, especially to see that the sai is used much like a club or a tonfa. It does say that the pointy end is dull, but then it also says it would be thrown into people at a short distance, so I dunno. It would be kinda neat if it could be both piercing and bludgeoning.

And yeah, waldo you can throw those weapons but if you checked out the link they mentioned it going into people's bodies. *shrugs*

Tellerve

 

[Waldo]

if you checked out the link they mentioned it going into people's bodies

True. And I'm sure it would if you pushed hard, or threw it hard enough. The page also says, it's effective at distances of further than 3 meters....

because if sai bang into opponents face it can literally knock down the attacker and hurt him very badly

It seems easiest to classify it as bludgeoning. And I feel like that's it primary use. You could try and slash with a short sword, but its primary use is piercing.

I could sharpen the ends of my quarterstaff to points. Does that make my quarterstaff piercing? How about I just add a little blade, too. Now it's all three, except now it's not a quarterstaff nor am I trained to use it properly. It involves different techniques

A weapon is defined by its form and use. I think the sai is fine in 3.5. I can see why people might disagree.

 

[Tellerve]

Yep, indeed. And I'm pretty ok with it being bludgeoning. But I can see the piercing vote, and wouldn't mind seeing a few other weapons have dual damage types. I guess it just odd thatyour reasoning doesn't revert the morningstar to being just a bludgeoning weapon.

Tellerve

 

[Waldo]

Then it would be a mace. That's no fun.

 

[MarauderX]

I'm not a military weapons history buff, but using the sai for quite a few years I have managed to accidently stab myself with them enough that it hurt. From what I have learned they were used (in D&D terms) to disarm & sunder katana (which is why they are shorter) and were also designed to pierce through tough armor that slashing weapons could not do easily. There are two so that the weilder can use one sai to engage the katana and use the other to attack or break the sword.

They also make great bludgeoning weapons as I have beat up my hands, forearms and legs (especially when just learning) enough to leave an occassional bruise when spinning and flipping them around.

As for throwing, I would say that it would similar to throwing a shortsword because they were never meant to be tossed at all to my knowledge.