The 3 reasons why I am done with WotC

[Turjan]

I get the feeling that many who are declaring an end to buying WotC stuff have already done so, sometimes several times.

Heh, that has the ring of truth .

Although I was saddened by the announcement of Dungeon's and Dragon's end, that's more of a nostalgic sentiment than anything else in my case. I didn't post much, as I don't really buy that much D&D stuff anymore, anyway. I wanted to let my subscriptions to the magazines slip and just buy the two remaining issues to wrap the last adventure path up. Ironically, that matches exactly the magazines' remaining lifetime. I don't have anything against Paizo, but I don't play D&D often enough to use all those adventures I already have. So I decided not to buy any anymore until I'll be done with what I have.

I haven't bought a single WotC book this year. I guess the new Star Wars book will be the first one. That's not a good basis for any calls for a boycott .

 

[WizarDru]

Considering that the same people, aside from the actual Paizo editors, will almost certainly be working on it, I'm betting the writing will be as good or better. There'll be more Mike Mearls and Matt Sernett, probably more Ari Marmell and Keith Baker; that sounds like a good base to build on from where I'm sitting. Again, they're inheriting Paizo's slush pile, and several of the Wizards people have worked on the Dragon staff before, so why WOULDN'T they maintain ties with the established authors?.

I mentioned in another thread that ended up being closed that I'd scanned WotC's current site and found twelve authors who currently have articles on the site who have contributed to Dragon in the last year or so. Some aren't big names like Andy Collins or Monte Cook, but they're regular contributors all the same. If you include the podcast, you can even include two of Paizo's editors in that list.

Seeing as how WotC is the single biggest purchaser of such material in the market, I don't see why anyone expects a huge difference in content. Focus, yes...editorial direction, certainly. But most of the same authors will be there.

As to argument of cost, WotC doesn't need to make the same numbers as the print magazine. They already have a well-established high-traffic site they merely need to enhance...and while the cost of that and the site will be significant, compared to the cost of creating and printing the magazinee, probably less so. Especially since WotC wasn't seeing much by way of proft FROM the magazine, as I understand it. They were mostly benefiting from the licensing. So they merely need to offset that fee, not match the magazine's numbers.

As for adults spending more on the game...that could be true, but currently WotC's research says otherwise. It may be incorrect and certainly my experience is anecdotal, but it does match that research, not the other way around. The future of the game has always been in new people joining the hobby, not in people staying with it for decades.

Hell, the game's CREATOR doesn't play the current game.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Plus China is undergoing changes that are causing costs their to rise.

Yes, but then companies will just shift production to another country with cheap(er) labour. That's what happened with Mexico, and Taiwan, and it will happen some day with China.

There will always be countries with cheap labour relative to the USA.

 

[freebfrost]

Wotc doesnt even produce $3,000 worrth of stuff a year.

Really?

Funny, I just purchased $300 worth of minis last month.



Yeah, they produce enough stuff to waste money on...

 

[amethal]

And while you and diaglo may spend upwards of $6000 a year on WotC products, I would hazard you are far and away the outliers, not the norm.

I was sure that if I ever saw "diaglo" and "norm" in the same sentence, there'd be a "not" in there somewhere.

 

[amethal]

Especially since WotC wasn't seeing much by way of proft FROM the magazine, as I understand it. They were mostly benefiting from the licensing. So they merely need to offset that fee, not match the magazine's numbers.

Or they could have continued to receive that fee, and run their on line thing at the same time.

I am having a hard time seeing how us Dungeon and Dragon buyers are so insignificant that it doesn't matter if they piss us off by cancelling two profitable magazines, but their on line initiative to the non-magazine buying masses can't cope with the competition.

 

[freebfrost]

If you assume 4 books at $30 apiece every month (which seems like too many), that's $1,400, tops - less if you bought any on Amazon or on sale at the FLGS or with a local retailer discount card or in any other way below market price.

Price out every product they released in 2006 and about 3 cases of minis per set released Moogle...

And that doesn't count items I bought for others for gifts.

I think my actual number was $3,105 if my records from last year are correct.

 

[WizarDru]

Or they could have continued to receive that fee, and run their on line thing at the same time.

I am having a hard time seeing how us Dungeon and Dragon buyers are so insignificant that it doesn't matter if they piss us off by cancelling two profitable magazines, but their on line initiative to the non-magazine buying masses can't cope with the competition.

I doubt they view the readers of both magazines as insignificant. But if the pattern holds, initial anger will soon fade and then a large chunk of those readers will, when not presented with another option, purchase the online option. Tons of people swore they were done with D&D when 3.5 was announced. Some did and many did not, or continued to purchase products even if they weren't actually using the 3.5 ruleset. However, if WotC continued to support 3.0 AND 3.5, that most likely would not have happened. WotC probably isn't interested in giving their customers a choice unless that makes them the most money...and only WotC knows their own numbers.

I can't speak for what WotC is thinking/doing, but I can easily envision that they want to avoid competition for the same resources. Seeing as how there are now more active subscribers for World of Warcraft than are supposed to be active players of pen-and-paper D&D, I can easily see how they envision a sea-change for the industry. If the online initiative fails, I'm sure the print versions will resume.

 

[Shadeydm]

3. I've worked in the magazine business. IT's brutal and very difficult to make a profit in. Don't believe me. Buy the 2005 writer's digest. Then pick up the 2007 writers digest. over 40 percent of the magazines in the 2005 are no longer in the 2007 version. 90 percent of all new magazines go under within a year. Most magazines have a shelflife of 10 to 20 years. Dungeon and Dragon just didn't fit in with Wotc's future plans. The magazines are not going anyway. They are just turning them into electronic magazines. It is much easier to maintain and utilize reference material electronically. I and other subscribers have been asking for this for years. It sucks that I won't have my favorite bathroom reading material, but at least I'll have something far more useful.

YMMV I have worked in the Magazine business for many years as well for both Harvard Business School Publishing (Harvard Business Review) and Boston Common Press (Cooks Illustrated & Cooks Country) Both were making money hand over fist at the time I worked for them (even though one cliamed to be "not for profit") so I have some trouble with your assertion that its difficult to make a profit.

 

[Thurbane]

Wotc doesnt even produce $3,000 worrth of stuff a year. And this isn't about the young kids, this is about us old timers. Us with the laptops and little time to cipher through magzines to plan an adventure. Us with the disposable income to buy large projector setups for our swanky game only laptops.

I don't think that there is going to be a loss of subscribers that won't be filled by the flurry of new subscribers.

Wow, your really are a different type of old timer than me.

I'm not a technophobe by any stretch, I really am into computers and technology in general, but give me a good old physical magazine over electronic format any day of the week.

Same for the rest of my gaming group.