The -5, Take 10 Rule

[Stalker0]

Take 10 is a great way to allow a character to do a decent amount of stuff without having to invest a terrible amount of skill points. For instance, a +5 climb with take 10 will let you climb a lot of surfaces when your not distracted.

The problem comes when combat ensues, all of a sudden you have a 45% chance of not making the check. Okay, that's not so bad, afterall you only have a +5.

However, even with a +10 in climb, meaning you are exceptionally trained or are so strong you can break solid rock with your bare hands...you still have a 20% chance of not making the simple DC 15.

So here's my rule, if you take a -5 to a skill check, you can take 10 on that check as if you were in a nonstressful situation, unless you cannot ever take 10 with that skill. You must have at least 5 ranks in the skill to do this.



So in this example, the person with the +10 climb check can make DC 20 climb checks easily when not distracted, and can make DC 15 checks easily even in the heat of battle.

Basically, this helps bridge the power gap in skill ranks needed. Normally a person would need a +14 in climb to be able to make DC 15 all the time. That's requires a lot of climb ranks. Now you can do it with a +10, which is a little more managable.

The net effect is that it allows characters to be consistently good at skills in combat with a good amount of training, but not the overwhelming amount required by the rules as is.

Also note that you cannot take 10 on skills like diplomacy and bluff because you cannot ever take 10 with them.


Edit: Made it so you have to have 5 ranks in the skill to use this mechanic, so that at least some formal training is there.

 

[the Jester]

It prolly isn't broken, but I don't care for this rule. I like making them roll.

 

[JimAde]

My only complaint is that you didn't call it "Take 5". How can you not call it Take 5!

Actually I agree with the Jester on this one. The whole point of not being able to take 10 in combat is that you can't rely onyour performance. What you've done is basically say "you can take 10, but the DC is 5 higher," and I feel like that violates the whole idea.

 

[Stalker0]

Ah, but the point is not that you can't rely on your performance, its that you can't rely on your performance UNLESS YOU ARE HIGHLY SKILLED.

In the example I mentioned since there are no auto failures of skills, a person with a +14 climb check can make DC 15 checks all day long even in combat. All my rule does is buffer that a little, now a person with a +10 climb skill can do the same thing.

It lets the players take care of the "mundane skill checks" without having to be quite as high a level or investing as many skills points. It allows a ranger for example to get enough points in climb to do the basics all the time and then focus more of his points in areas he wants to get really good at.

And yes, I should probably call it Take 5 that's a much better name

As another option, you could limit the DC's it applicable for. For instance, maybe you feel a DC 15 climb check could be made automatic with this rule, but a DC 20 is too difficult to do so. Then you could add the caveat that only DC 15 or below apply for this rule.

 

[babomb]

It's not BAD, but I think rolling's more fun.

My only complaint is that you didn't call it "Take 5". How can you not call it Take 5!

Great, now I've got that song in my head.

Dududu dadadadat dut daaaa dadadut daaaaa dadadut daaaaa...

 

[Sledge]

The problem in my head is that someone with "Take 5" could be auto succeeding on that DC 15 check by level 3, instead of around 7. That's a big difference. I think at level 3 the characters really ought to be failing at some skill checks.

 

[Stalker0]

The problem in my head is that someone with "Take 5" could be auto succeeding on that DC 15 check by level 3, instead of around 7. That's a big difference. I think at level 3 the characters really ought to be failing at some skill checks.

Keep in mind that not all skill checks are DC 15, many are higher than this.

As far as making combat boring, again keep in mind the game right now has an implied take 1 rule. So you can already get to the point where climb checks are automatic. I'm just changing the scale a little bit.

In a game I'm playing in right now my 7th level monk has a +17 jump skill. That means on a run I can jump 18 feet regardless of arrows flying, a balor casting spells, whatever. That's not boring for me, first I think that's fun that my friends are worried about making their rolls while I just jump about because I can.

But also, I push the envelope. I can make 18 feet easily. But what if I'm carrying a person? What if I try to leap on to Balor's head? Things like that. Good players push the envelope, even if they start doing somethings automatically they will keep looking for even more exciting things to do with their skills.

Also, as many have seen, as players get to higher levels magics start overshadowing skills. Sure that +17 jump is very impressive until the mage casts fly. So it would be nice is skills could do some more and get somemore spotlight time before magic starts putting them out to pasture.

 

[Infiniti2000]

I was thinking about Take 5 and came up with the idea that you can only take 5 in a skill where you have Skill Focus or one of the +2/+2 skills (like Agile). I think this is a little more focused than merely requiring 5 ranks and actually gives those feats some more importance (I mean, really, who ever takes Agile?). I think, also, that you could Take 5 even when threatened or distracted.

What do you think?