The Adherent

[Dannyalcatraz]

Looking much better!

The TK thing as depicted in the SW movies and elsewhere, doesn't start off at full strength. Early on, even light objects are difficult to move with TK. Only with time and practice are Jedi and other TKs able to lift their own natural strength or possibly even more.

I'd make that TK thing available at a low level- possibly even 1st- and assign it a Str...say, Str 5. Then every level that TK's Str goes up +2 points. By 20th level, that's a 45 Str TK. Too strong? Make it +1Str point/level, or perhaps +1 pt on even levels, +2 on odd.

Then build refinements over the power...controlled flight, tossing people around, TK punches and even TK versions of martial arts maneuvers have been used in comics, books and movies. Other possible refinements (based on the PC's control):

1)...reaching within a creature's body and grasping its heart, or perhaps just pinching off the carotid & jugular for a while.

2)...using certain skills at range, like disable device or UMD

3)...wielding weapons at range as a bizzare variant of "reach" that lets them conduct melee without being in melee.

4)...doing special combat maneuvers at range- trips, disarms, bull rushes.

These could be based off of Concentration checks with appropriate DCs.

Another thought- you might want to give them fewer powers on their list (and possibly PP) taking the best & most appropriate ones and make them into Psi-like abilities.

OR...Grabbing a mechanic from Ari Marmell's (aka Mousferatu) Shadowmancer (Tome of Magic), as the PC advances in the class, they learn from a small set of powers. At the point the PC gains 4th level powers, the lower 3 become psi-like powers with limited uses. When the PC starts learning 7th level powers, the 4-6th ones become psi like powers with limited uses, and the 3rd and lower ones become at will abilities. Going this route, the PC would need fewer overall PP. As a manifester, they could still use the Feat Extra Power, but that "declining cost" class feature would only apply to TK/Telepathy based powers.

That said, I'm a little confused by some of the power selections on your list.

Concussion seems like a natural but seems to be missing, and I really don't see how Psionic Etherealness or Reality Revision fit your concept at all.

 

[ardentmoth]

for #1, i could add a non-lethal damage clause, seems to make sense all things considered. Seems to make sense anyway...

I definitely like #2, and it wouldn't make the class entirely broken either, if done right. i'm thinking i may "more evenly" spread the Ley Lines abilities out, and add one more dealing with that concept. Thoughts?

#3...Interesting, and kinda cool. I would want to limit it to simple weapons only (as this isn't really a direct combat class), and only of the size category(s) that can be weilded by the character. I will ponder this for a while, and get back to you. feel free to use it regardless of if i do, lol.

#4 is possible when you consider number 2. perhaps even another level of ley lines abilities (which will allow me to spread out the lvl 19 weight power, simulating the strength option you mentioned a bit more closely).

I'd prefer not to introduce new mechanics per se, though feats, abilities, etcetera are all fine. Adding new/weird/different/altered mechanics just make it harder for another DM to adapt it (if they so choose). That said, mouseferatu did an excellent job, i hadn't realized that was his work i guess. Very cool.

concussion is directly combat, etherealness complements the empty body SU recieved as a monk (essentially the same thing but a psi-power instead of an ability) but can be removed.

Reality Revision you are correct on. Removed.

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Recap:
-Remove Reality Revision and Etherealness
-Add two or three levels of Ley Sense, and -more- evenly space them (still trying to avoid dead levels because I hate them). They should pertain to TK weight restriction and non-lethality, as well as skill-use at a distance

DISCUSS
-What distance the distant skill use ability should be at the different levels of power progression.
-How it might be abused, and how distance-melee might be abused.
-Which psi-powers would make better abilities than powers (preferably non-combat powers, so as to keep the flavor).

hey, thanks man. I appreciate the help.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

The Distant Skill use should have an effective range of LOS, but the greater the distance, the higher the DC- mechanically, kind of like the RI on ranged weapons. AND make sure that the stat that normally affects the skill is the one that affects the distant use as well. A clumsy oaf shouldn't be able to do dextrous things at range that he can't do with his own two hands.

For distant combat, I'd take another look at that Monk Feat from the DCv1- Ring the Golden Bell. It puts a definite range and other limitations on using unarmed strike at range- definitely not overpowered.

Limit the distant melee weapon use to weapons the PC is proficient with- if the player wants to burn a feat for his PC to make him proficient with a Great Spear, he should be able to use it with his TK ability. Its not like he's getting a lot of bonus feats to burn for this class.

 

[ardentmoth]

distant skills:
I am inclined to agree on distance (LOS with DC), though i cannot think of a moment in SW (which is the primary inspiration after all ) in which a force-user wields the force at more than about 30 feet. a bow on the other hand can hit from 150, if it's used with proficiency by a professional. Though it is only skill checks, i would think that a Rogue/Adherent shouldn't necessarily be able to cast from a wand using UMD that is "held" at 150 feet away... all the same, i like power. Intentionally failing a disable check on a trap with a fail explosion radius of 30 feet (decent explosion) from 50 feet away might be a bit too much power though, it's instant disabling unless the trap auto-resets. Can you think of a specific scenario or a reason to allow a skill check to be performed at LOS range? I really do want a reason to allow that kind of easily abusable power lol.

Right on, i'll work on wording the distant combat stuff, and take another look at the Monk feat. I see the your logic, i just wanted to avoid combat as much as possible with this class...but you present a nice case, so i'll at the very least make a variant version.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

1) Keep the RI short- with Ring the Golden Bell, its something like 5'.

2) Don't allow taking 10 or 20 with a ranged skill.

Together with 1 (above), that means that even as close as 30', you'd be taking severe range penalties, meaning you'd probably NOT be interested in intentionally failing that lockpick roll if you suspected a magical trap- there's still a risk if the lock is trapped with the wrong spell.

TK as depicted in the movies and certain written fiction(especially Larry Niven's "Gil 'the Hand' Hamilton" or most comic books) is frequently used for all kinds of skilled tasks- picking locks, grabbing small objects. How many times have you seen Force Wielders or other "Tekes" grab a gun or other weapon from an assailant's hand? That's a Disarm combat maneuver, in D&D terms.

3) Have the difficulty of ranged weapon wielding impose some additional penalties. Require Concentration rolls, for instance, incurring AoOs and disruptable by being struck.