The "alien mindset" of a race

[Dogbrain]

As a GM running RuneQuest, I used Dragonewts for "utterly alien". They simply did not make sense. For the most part, people (including PCs) just treated them like dangerous features of nature. The only "rules" that semed to be applicable were that Dragonewts usually would dislike it if you killed a lot of them, and they would defend their homes, usually. The only sure thing was that they would react rather violently to having their eggs destroyed--almost all of the time. What really confused people were those rare Dragonewts who tried to actually interact with them. Blue Thing--Not George was one such Dragonewt. He was on a quest for "-ness". There was one other principle: Dragonewts who were actually comprehensible had "fallen" and would not become Dragons, probably.

 

[Saeviomagy]

A human develops attachments to a number of friends, and those attachments can override any sort of sense of duty. A human can deeply care about people on both sides of some sort of feud. Atevi evolved on a world where pack structure is the main rule of the dominant species: there's you, and there's your alpha.

I'm still not seeing where this is different to humans, at least on an unconscious level, emotional attachment is a pack survival mechanism. We don't see it that way maybe, but that's what it is. If we can mistake that in ourselves, then I fail to see how mistaking it in an alien race is likely to cause problems.

Perhaps you could illustrate the incident which started the war? Make use of the {spoiler} tags if you feel the need.

 

[Incenjucar]

Of course, the obvious problem is that no human could actually comprehend an incomprehensible intellect.

Of course, there's also the other option: There's no such thing. While it's true that humans generally have a hard time figuring themselves and each other out, there's no actual proof that it's that hard to figure out other creatures.

Essentially, I suppose, it's the Far Realms problem: Is there really anything that a strong mind can't handle barring fear and sensory overload (which is akin to saying a person can't handle pain by shooting them in the face...).

Makes you wish there were some aliens to try and figure out.

 

[Dogbrain]

I'm still not seeing where this is different to humans, at least on an unconscious level, emotional attachment is a pack survival mechanism.

No. Humans do not and have never lived in packs. We are not pack animals, we are troop animals. There is a difference. Troops (pretty much unique to primates) allow far more leeway in developing personal friendships. Likewise, and possibly far more importantly, troops do not necessarily dictated all possible breeding. In a wolfpack, only the alpha male and alpha female breed. In a chimpanzee or bonobo troop, alphas may get first choice, but lower status males and females will and can couple on their own. The pack gives genetic "regard" towards the alphas and only the alphas. The troop gives genetic "regard" to many members, not only the alphas.

Packs are not troops. Troops are not packs.

We are not bees, even though both we and bees are "social" animals.

 

[Dogbrain]

Essentially, I suppose, it's the Far Realms problem: Is there really anything that a strong mind can't handle barring fear and sensory overload (which is akin to saying a person can't handle pain by shooting them in the face...).

Not in the least. A rock can be heavy, but not too heavy to lift. That some rocks are not too heavy to lift does not mean that there is no rock too heavy to lift. I come across many rocks too heavy to lift that impose no "overload" on me. They're just there.

 

[Numion]

I'm bothered that many alien races are portrayed as different from humans culturevise, but they really aren't. Most of the time the alien culture just is concentrated on one of the many facets of human culture. There is the alien race that act and organize themselves like human spartans, very warlike. There is the alien race #2 that conduct like human hippies, very artsy and peaceful.

Only human race apparently seems able to have diversity.

Thats also what bothers me about scifi shows - it's not that bad the aliens look human with a few wrinkles on their faces (its just the limited budget), but that one whole race always only equals a single human culture.

 

[WayneLigon]

Both the Classic Traveller and MegaTraveller Alien books were good at describing an alien mindset and the means to roleplay such. What it generally worked out to was 'play Vargr because everything else is really too weird' And even the Vargr had such a different way of looking at things that it was a strain (the Vargr are the only convincing Chaotic society I've ever seen).

The GURPS Alien races book (I think; it might also be in Fantasy Races) has some good advice. When your character can give the same impact to 'They can't expect me to skip lunch!' as a human can to 'They can't expect me to give up my baby!', then you're on your way to exploring an alien mindset.

Stranger in a Strange Land is still one of the best books to explore this concept. Fantasy occassionally dips into this territory, esp. when dealing with the faerie realms.

Is there really anything that a strong mind can't handle barring fear and sensory overload

Certainly there is. There are going to be concepts that a human simply cannot accept, or concepts that are by themselves so poisonous to human intellect that they cause a person to go mad. Usually (for obvious reasons) in literature we see this by inference. There's a great Draco's Tavern story by Larry Niven that goes like this: a race, one of the oldest, has solved most of the physical problems that plagued it and has now turned to spiritual questions. They seek the answer of answers: what is the nature of God? The last word anyone has from them is that they are very close to knowing the answer to that question; all communications are then lost. Others that go to their worlds find that the entire race has committed suicide: everyone on all their planets is dead. They left behind records of what they found, and even centuries later there are suicides among people who study those records and put together the peices. They know it is something capable of being understood by even simple minds, and that it is capable of proof.

It's a nice 'idea' story with a nagging back end that can inspire a whole evening of discussion, kind of like the end to George Pal's version of The Time Machine; what could be the nature of the discovery that caused such a reaction?

 

[Aaron2]

As a GM running RuneQuest, I used Dragonewts for "utterly alien". They simply did not make sense. For the most part, people (including PCs) just treated them like dangerous features of nature. ...

Did you have Wyrms Footnotes #14? They had rules for playing Dragonnewts in there. You basically had a chart of personality traits (similar to the one in Pendragon) and randomly rolled your reaction to any event. You would eventual can conscious control of the various traits and needed to control certain emotions to advanced to the next stage (crested to beaked etc).


Aaron

 

[Ferret]

In other words, they're very human. We are intensely pattern-making creatures. We even invent patterns where there are none, just because it's what we do. That is how conspiracy theory stays supported. Good fencers manipulate this instinct.

They don't invent patterns, they just see them. But your right they are quite human otherwise.

 

[Dogbrain]

They don't invent patterns, they just see them. But your right they are quite human otherwise.

And what if no pattern actually exists? Do they "see" a pattern that isn't there? That's what humans do.