"...the ancient empire of the tieflings..." and Sword & Sorcery gaming

[Blair Goatsblood]

That bit in the dungeoncraft article about the "the ancient empire of the tieflings" just changed my mind entirely about the inclusion of Tieflings in the PHB.

I try to base my D&D campaign on classic swords & sorcery fiction tropes. RE Howard, CA Smith, Lin Carter, etc.

One of the cliches is the ancient, pre-human civilizations evil sorcerous race. Melniboneans, pre-Stygians, Serpent Men, Lemurians, Smygorians, what have you.

If the mechanics of the Tiefling race work with that flavor, I can just reimage and rename them and use them as Nephilium, Serpent Men, Valusians, Atlanteans, etc. The same way I can rebrand Warforged and use them as androids for dying earth/sword & planet genre flavor. Shoot, I could repaint Drow as unseelie elves.

My game is set in the Wilderlands, and it' possible that I could use 4E Tieflings as a fast way of making Demonbred, True Viridian or True Orichalan NPCS.

 

[Wormwood]

My game is set in the Wilderlands, and it' possible that I could use 4E Tieflings as a fast way of making Demonbred, True Viridian or True Orichalan NPCS.

Which is fantastic, because every single one of those names sounds better than "Tiefling".

Love the concept, but the name is weaksauce.

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

This is exactly why I'm happy about tieflings in the PHB. FINALLY, after 30 freaking years of High Fantasy races in what was originally conceived of as a Sword and Sorcery RPG, we have all of ONE core race other than human appropriate to a Sword and Sorcery game!

As such, the inclusion of tieflings DOUBLES the number core races I would typically allow in a non-Spelljammer game.

Love the concept, but the name is weaksauce.

Frankly, I think this sums up my reaction to at least 90% of what I've seen of 4e so far.

The D&D team really needs to take the stuff of the Magic creative team, both for art direction and naming conventions. It's no good completing the cliche by killing them first; we need them to produce more decent-to-good names!

 

[JohnSnow]

This is exactly why I'm happy about tieflings in the PHB. FINALLY, after 30 freaking years of High Fantasy races in what was originally conceived of as a Sword and Sorcery RPG, we have all of ONE core race other than human appropriate to a Sword and Sorcery game!

As such, the inclusion of tieflings DOUBLES the number core races I would typically allow in a non-Spelljammer game.



Frankly, I think this sums up my reaction to at least 90% of what I've seen of 4e so far.

The D&D team really needs to take the stuff of the Magic creative team, both for art direction and naming conventions. It's no good completing the cliche by killing them first; we need them to produce more decent-to-good names!

The problem is that if they had come up with an infernal bloodline race and given them a new name, there would have been a loud hue and cry from the "traditionalists" complaining something to the effect of:

"WHAT is WotC thinking? I hate the name "Demonbred" - Tiefling was so much better!! And it has more HISTORY in the game!!"

Quite honestly, they can't win. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

 

[Scholar & Brutalman]

Which is fantastic, because every single one of those names sounds better than "Tiefling".

It's meant to be a German term, and I find it sounds better if I pronounce it with a (fake) German accent.

That tells me what the language of the Tiefling Empire was. Or rather, the Thousand-Year Tiefling Reich!

Now I know what symbol the Tiefling Paladins wore...

 

[Shroomy]

Quite honestly, they can't win. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Which is why I think that this type of scorched earth policy towards existing cannon and tradition is not such a bad idea after all. I'm not one for traditional depictions just for tradition sake.

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

The problem is that if they had come up with an infernal bloodline race and given them a new name, there would have been a loud hue and cry from the "traditionalists" complaining something to the effect of:

"WHAT is WotC thinking? I hate the name "Demonbred" - Tiefling was so much better!! And it has more HISTORY in the game!!"

Quite honestly, they can't win. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

But if the do (change the names), they're damned only by a vocal minority of existing players. If they DON'T, they're damned by terrible names for all eternity (or at least a decade or so). Besides, tiefling just happens to be one of the lame names they KEPT, rather than making them from scratch.

It's meant to be a German term, and I find it sounds better if I pronounce it with a (fake) German accent.

That tells me what the language of the Tiefling Empire was. Or rather, the Thousand-Year Tiefling Reich!

Now I know what symbol the Tiefling Paladins wore...

This, however, makes the name more than bearable, and would be an especially cool way to handle the 'ancient evil empire that reigned in pre-human antiquity.' Even if it does Godwin the thread.

 

[WhatGravitas]

But if the do (change the names), they're damned only by a vocal minority of existing players. If they DON'T, they're damned by terrible names for all eternity (or at least a decade or so). Besides, tiefling just happens to be one of the lame names they KEPT, rather than making them from scratch.

What I don't get, however, is: Why do they keep the name, if they re-envision the entire race: I mean that horn-laden full race is completely different than our tieflings now. Why keep the name, especially if you consider that the name isn't loaded with 'lore' or 'old school'-flavour. It's only really relevant to Planescape, but it has lost any connection to that.

This, however, makes the name more than bearable, and would be an especially cool way to handle the 'ancient evil empire that reigned in pre-human antiquity.' Even if it does Godwin the thread.

Unless you ARE German and can translate 'tiefling' back into English: Deepling. Which is stupid. In both languages (and yes, the translators here, translate 'tiefling' as 'Tiefling').

Cheers, LT.

 

[Gloombunny]

I actually like tiefling as a name for humans with a trace of demonic ancestry. But as a name for a whole species of semi-demonic humanoids who had an ancient empire, it's pretty crap. Sigh.

 

[Scholar & Brutalman]

Since it was apparently based on Teufel or "Devil", does Teufeling sound any better in German?