The awesome encounter that wasn't.

[Wiseblood]

Recently our DM ran an encounter that had enemies shooting at us from what could only be called unassailable positions. They enemies encountered were most likely Drow. I say most likely because we never actually saw them. We were assaulted by an unknown number of highly proficient entities. They remained hidden and dished out copious amounts of damage. We did the only thing we could do ... we ran. (at first we attempted to mount a counter but quickly changed our minds when we were handed a large chunk of damage) I'm sure he had planned things to unfold differently but it led to some irritated players.

It's one thing to be handed some humble pie, I think it's quite another to be rendered powerless without the usual prerequisite act of PC foolishness.

I've been guilty of the same shenanegins earlier in my DM career. The list of my mistakes is a long one gathered through the decades. I doubt that my list is complete. Please EN worlders share your pain. Perhaps I can dodge the bullet of as yet unknown errors when I again occupy the seat of DM.

 

[Doug McCrae]

The example you give is actually perfectly okay DMing imo, except that it didn't go as the DM planned so he'd obviously misjudged the tactical situation. But I think it is fine to present PCs with a foe (or situation) too tough to beat, *even* if the players haven't been 'stupid', *even* if there's no warning, provided the players have a chance to respond meaningfully in some way - running or talking are the only options I can think of. (I'm not including surrender cuz I know how much players, rightly, hate it.)

I've done much worse as a DM, and recently too, in fact it was the last session I ran. It ended in a TPK as a result of an umber hulk's confusion. All the PCs failed their saves. This was really horrible because it completely removed the player's decision making. It 100% disempowered them, reducing them to dice rollers for the duration of quite a long fight scene, 20 mins or so. No chance to decide to run, talk or flee. Obviously I didn't realise quite how bad that is at the time but now I do.

Removing a player's agency = BAD.

 

[Oryan77]

it led to some irritated players.

I would never be irritated as a player by any sort of encounter unless it was obvious that the DM was trying to railroad me.

I would actually find your scenario a fun encounter. For me, I would find it extremely fun to figure out how to overcome that challenge after I had run away from it. Now you guys know what to expect, so what are you gonna do about it?

I think it's quite another to be rendered powerless without the usual prerequisite act of PC foolishness.

For every encounter that wasn't for you guys, there's 20 times that many that wasn't for the DM I don't know how many times the PCs breezed through an encounter that was supposed to be challenging in our campaign. You guys can't handle getting your butt handed to ya once in awhile? Or was it obvious this DM was railroading you guys and purposefully keeping you from advancing?

I'm one of those DMs that believe that not every encounter is supposed to be fair. Even though players claim to agree with that most of the time, they still complain that a DM is being unfair when it happens

I actually think you guys played it really smart. Running away like you did was a sign of a smart bunch of warriors. Unlike players I've DMed who stay and fight no matter what and then complain when they lose and say that I don't know how to judge challenge ratings.

 

[Simm]

Oddly enough I DMed a very similar situation in my most recent session. Playing a updated version of KotB, the players had attacked and been repelled from the kobold lair at level 1. They finally returned at level 4 to find the kobolds had bricked up the entrance (they dug an entry tunnel straight up from their lair. The kobold ambush party then attacked them from the trees with crossbows. Apparently I hadn't really noticed that the party had no ranged capability they fled again. I felt sort of bad about it afterwards but hey I drove off four level 4 PC with 11 kobold warrior 1s.

 

[Mouseferatu]

I can think of two encounters off the top of my head that I thought were just fantastically, amazingly cool when I envisioned them--and which ended up being terribly unfun when I actually ran them.

1) Inspired in part by the Buffy episode "Hush," I tried to turn it up a notch and run an encounter in an area both magically darkened and magically silenced.

Yeah, I don't know what I was thinking, either.

2) In what was mostly one of my best campaigns--a primarily urban campaign I ran, oh, about a year and change ago--I set up a major encounter in a huge, aboveground New Orleans-style graveyard. It was great atmosphere, there were lots of interesting tactical and terrain options. Sounds great, huh?

It would've been--except for the fact that the monsters I pitted against the PCs were a combination of shadows and specters.

Have you ever seen what happens in combat when every hit by a monster causes a PC to have to recalculate multiple numbers on his sheet? And when the different monsters cause different numbers to change?

I'll tell you what happens. The game grinds to a boring, screeching halt as every round turns into math homework, that's what.

 

[skinnydwarf]

<SNIP>

Apparently I hadn't really noticed that the party had no ranged capability they fled again. I felt sort of bad about it afterwards but hey I drove off four level 4 PC with 11 kobold warrior 1s.

I wouldn't feel bad. Getting to 4th level and not bothering to buy some sort of ranged weapon is kind of dumb. It's not your fault they weren't prepared. They've learned a valuable lesson- from now on they'll invest in some ranged capability.

 

[Lord Zardoz]

As a DM, I know of quite a few ways to get around my players strengths. I tend to stay away from them because using them will slow down the game. Essentially, against opponents who should recognize that the players are benefitting from powerful buffing magic, I could just retreat and regroup, striking again when the spell has expired.

I do not do this because the game lacks an adequate chase mechanic.

But, my game is nearing a point where I either need to pull out bigger beasts, or start using much nastier tactics. I think running an encounter where the players have to work to figure out how to strike at the opponents could be fun.

END COMMUNICATION

 

[DamnedChoir]

I DM'ed a group of players in a Ravenloft 3.5 game.

The players powergamed and made optimized builds from the beginning, but they played gamically rather than smartly to the point they were often using out-of-game inferences to determine in-game actions.

The worst of these nearly resulted in a TPK if I didn't do something about it...and the players, of course, blamed me.

The players, now about 5th level, I beleive 1 Fighter, 2 Clerics of different gods and a Ranger, were in Kartakass and found a wierd, creepy little town in the middle of nowhere. All the way there in the woods they heard an odd, haunting melody and were stalked by distant, black shapes (They caught glimpses of on DC20)

The little town was called 'Wolfhaven' or something similar. All their coins were copper and tin and silver whatnot, they all had different forest animals on them, and the people were odd and a little twitchy. More than once they caught the glimpse of something big and bad out of the corner of their eyes only to see one of the grim and unfriendly NPC's of the village.

Can you see where I'm going here? They couldn't.

So eventually, they get woken up at night by some strange sounds, and can't sleep. They go about wandering the woods, on one player's suggestion that 'any monsters are level appropriate so they can't kill us' to the point where he was taunting the black, shadowy shapes. Eventually the catch glimpse of a village man out in the wilderness doing something suspicious.

They get close, he was burying something, he flees, chase ensues! They decide to follow him deep into the dark woods with all the black shapes. (Mind you by now I've had the people in the town recoil or refuse to take gold coins, freaking out about them, actually. These are players who know the monster manual by the back of their hands. They all bought silver daggers at level 1 because they expect to have to use them.)

So the guy dissappears, I tell them of all the big black shapes, etc, so they finally go back.

A few days later they are out investigating for the dug hole, and then they manage to spot a huge black wolf out in the distance, watching them, again...and they decide to attack it this time.

The Mountain Loups Garou pretty much tears the party to shreds, possibly infects 2 of them with lycanthropy, uses improved Trip, Grapple, etc, to Devastating effect and since it's hurt by gold their silver daggers have no effect until an NPC bard of the region shows up and scares it off with a gold weapon.

Now, I've thrown so many hints that they were dealing with gold-hating werewolves, and the fact I tried to dissuade them away from just attacking big scary things in the forest...yet they still told me the fight was too tough and refused to play Ravenloft anymore.

To me, I'm just surprised that 1. They kept tempting fate assuming monsters were always level appropriate. 2. They attacked something without knowing what it was. 3 They didn't pick up on the hints of being afraid of/hating gold.

Is it my fault?

 

[Doug McCrae]

Is it my fault?

Yes. Definitely. You knew your players were expecting style X, a style you didn't like. You could've told them you run style Y and corrected their misconceptions before it caused bad feeling. You chose not to do that.

 

[DamnedChoir]

Good point.