The Bane of PrC

[shouit]

OK, I have run three 3rd edition campaigns, each with a different group of players, with some overlap. I have noticed a very significant trend, that the player is already picking out his PrC before he even has rolled his stats. A lot of players in the games I have run, were doing this.

For example, the want to play a shadow dancer, so they build their first level character with the total purpose of getting to that PrC. What is this?

I understand that each PrC have requirements and feats that are needed to go to them, but why not see where the character goes first? If you want to play a bard, play one, not a wanna be shadow dancer. Am I anti-PrC, no. But, I want the player not to have to plan 6 to 9 levels before that they want to be a certain PrC. Also note, I do understand that sometimes that is feasible to justify that, like the different sects of Paladin under Corean in the Scarred Lands, but for a character from podunk backwater to know there are things like shadow dancers out there when he has never left his home, is absurd.

What do you guys think?

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

It's OK to plan for a PrC, but I agree that you should have to make a judgement on whether the PC actually knows about the PrC before he can start moving towards it. This is metagaming.

Compromise by making sure the characters meet some members of the PrC early on, so that they at least have a decent reason for wanting to become that class.

 

[Vaxalon]

It sounds like you're confusing the player's plans and the character's plans.

When an author writes a story, he knows where the character is going to go. The character doesn't know.

 

[hong]

What Vax said. I said pretty much the same thing in this thread, but less concisely:

http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22829

 

[thundershot]

My players map out their characters all the way to 20th level. Sure, they change over time, especially when new products come out, but I see nothing unusual about "prepping" for a Prestige Class. In fact, you kinda HAVE to.

One of my players has a Goblin Cavalier. Right now he's just a Fighter, but he still refers to himself as a Cavalier, because that's what he's going to become, and what he considers himself. He should be ready for the actual class in two levels.


Chris

 

[Furn_Darkside]

What do you guys think?

All my players run what PrC (if any) they are interested in, then (if I ok the PrC) I work with them so that it becomes a part of the story.

Heck, I help plan the final death of characters with my players- they are not leaves in the breeze of my dm'ng.. they are active participants in the story.

FD

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Easy solution.

Don't make it so easy to get a PrC. Tell your players that PrC's are secret societies or special lore that has to be found before it can be joined and there is no guaruntee that it will ever be found.

 

[Crothian]

I add a role playing element to all prestige classes that includes seeking them out and getting the proper training. I have no problems if a character is aiming towards a prestige class as long as that is what the player wants to do. I just ask that it make sense in the game and not come out of left field.

 

[ForceUser]

What do you guys think?

I think there's nothing wrong with this, in fact, I encourage it. Usually when my players come up with a character concept involving a PrC, it means that they see the character AS that prestige class, and not as the base class. That's okay. If your character is one day destined to be a great arcane archer, plan ahead. Get into the class as soon as possible, because the longer you wait the longer it is until you get the cool character-defining abilities you're seeking. Prestige classes are not a little tack-on at the end of your character. They are character-defining career choices, so it's important that the player plan ahead to get into the class when he wants to. If you're having trouble rationalizing it as a DM, don't. Just let them do it (or rule-zero it if you can't accept it - though this won't endear you to your players).

The way I usually rationalize it is this: the character is not necessarily making choices specifically to get into the class, he's just maturing in a way that, unbeknownst to the character, will make him a great [INSERT PRESTIGE CLASS HERE] one day. Alternately, you could do what some of my players have done, and that is to work the PrC into your character's backstory, providing a good reason why he'll pursue that prestige career. For instance, in my OA game, the monk character was rescued from an abusive father by a Tattooed Monk (a prestige class from Oriental Adventures). The Tattooed Monk delivered him to a nearby monastery and promised to keep in touch. For his part, the young future monk swore to himself that one day he too would become a Tattooed Monk. It has been his character's life goal since that moment.

As a DM, allow your players to come up with such justifications for sculpting their characters to a PrC from 1st level. In the above example, it clearly makes sense, and only an unreasonable DM would disallow the player from ultimately enjoying the character he wants to play. You may not like how players plan for PrC's early on, but if the prestige class is the class they really want to play, why would you get grumpy about the player trying to get into the class as soon as possible? Instead, if the PrC is allowed in your campaign, let the player have his fun. At the end of the day, that's what it's all about.

 

[jester47]

All the suggestions here are good. I would suggest making PrCs somthing like an item. Its not available until you say it is and you are only likely to do so if it fits the story. Another way to look at it is to suggest the class not be a goal in and of its self but have the class be a means to attain a goal. Thus a paladin needs a certain ability to defeat an enemy. He does not have it but blackgurd does. Thus to acheive his goal the paladin goes to "the dark side."

Aaron.