The Beginner Box

[IronWolf]

I'm excited about this. I run 4e for dozens of ESL kids in Korea. I started playing Pathfinder recently and really love it. I've been tempted to start all my new games in Pathfinder but have decided not to b/c I feel it is a little too complicated.

If this is indeed a simplified rule-set and not only levels 1-5 (up to level 10 and I'd be satisfied), then I will buy this for sure, and likely will be playing this with all my students!

Yeah - Pathfinder AP's here I come!

It is only going up to level 5, but I suspect it will help give you an easier to pick up intro to the game that you could transition to the main core rulebook more easily for levels higher than 6.

 

[Pinotage]

I'm quite excited about this. A good beginner box is useful for both new players and children. I hope they're gearing it a little towards the latter.

Pinotage

 

[FATDRAGONGAMES]

I'm getting one for me simply because I love boxed RPGs, but I'm more excited about it because it's making my Christmas purchasing VERY easy this year for several people.

 

[Reynard]

People would be a lot less nostalgic about BECMI if TSR had said, "Here's 5 levels. When you're ready, buy the full AD&D game."

People are nostalgic for BECMI for a number of reasons, but primarily because it was what got them hooked on D&D. They may have played through the solo adventure in the Basic PHB and then run out and bought AD&D, or they may have played BECMI for 15 years and built a character all the way up to immortality. In either case, the design of the game as an introduction to the limitless fun of D&D is what captured them and made them remember those sets fondly.

I sincerely hope the Pathfinder intro set manages the same thing, though I fear they have a lot more difficult row to hoe than TSR did with BECMI. There are a lot of alternatives in other media these days, not to mention the direct competition of 4E*. Most importatantly, Pathfinder lacks a strong product identity outside of gamers. No one is going to go looking to check out that cool pathfinder game. they are going to go seek out that cool D&D game the Penny Arcade dudes play.

* $10 says WotC revises their 4E basic set to mirror the Pathfinder set within 6 months of the PF Basic release. It's kind of weird when the student becomes the teacher, no?

 

[Scurvy_Platypus]

People are nostalgic for BECMI for a number of reasons, but primarily because it was what got them hooked on D&D. They may have played through the solo adventure in the Basic PHB and then run out and bought AD&D, or they may have played BECMI for 15 years and built a character all the way up to immortality. In either case, the design of the game as an introduction to the limitless fun of D&D is what captured them and made them remember those sets fondly.

I understand.

My point though is that Basic and all the subsequent sets were their own deal. There were modules published for them, etc.

What's now known as BECMI was a full on ruleset that people could stay with or could drop and move to AD&D if they wanted.

What has been offered since then is a gutted version of the rules, whose only purpose is to be an "introduction" so that people will spend money buying the "main" or "full" game. And _that_ is what I have zero interest in. Currently, I don't know that the "Pathfinder Basic" is actually going to be something other than a neutered ruleset.

There's also a fair degree of nostalgia about how "great" the BECMI set of rules are/were. I'm not landing on either side of that particular discussion here, I'm simply saying that people don't hold the starter set that's been done for 3.x with any kind of fondness.

If Pathfinder Basic is genuinely a simplified ruleset and is actually supported? Groovy. I'll definitely buy a set. But I don't have any evidence to suggest it being more than some random one-off product with the goal of having people buy regular Pathfinder.

And honestly? I'm not _expecting_ it's going to be anything other than a one-off attempt to shuffle people into the "full" game. I mean, I find it difficult to believe that Paizo would actually support 2 sets of rules; my opinion would improve quite a bit if they did, but I don't see it as a practical reality.

That being the case, I can fall back to "I can't really get worked up about this product". I've already got a Pathfinder book so I can introduce people if I want, and I personally have extreme doubts about the number of people that have zero ties to rpgs and would be inclined to pick up the Pathfinder box that wouldn't be already be inclined to simply buy the "full" Pathfinder game anyway.

In other words, I would be genuinely surprised if Paizo was going to "split" their customer-base by having 2 different sets of rules. Given that I don't think they are, it means the "basic" set really isn't geared towards anyone other than already existing fans or people that _would_ buy the game regardless of whether it was "basic" or the full version.

Nothing wrong with that, just not anything I see much point in getting excited over. Another Pathfinder product has been made... groovy if you want to buy something.

 

[IronWolf]

Currently, I don't know that the "Pathfinder Basic" is actually going to be something other than a neutered ruleset.

Pure speculation, but I suspect the Pathfinder Beginner set will have a lot trimmed out without changing the essence of the rules. Since it only goes to level five they can cut out a large number of feats and spells to save room. Essentially helping reduce the sheer size of the core rulebook into something that isn't so intimidating to a new RPG player.

I suspect the initial number of available classes will be reduced to a smaller number as well. As much to reduce the intimidating size of the rulebook as much as anything else. While more seasoned RPG players want options for their characters, those new to the RPG world will have more than enough options just with "core" classes and base options to get started.

If Pathfinder Basic is genuinely a simplified ruleset and is actually supported? Groovy. I'll definitely buy a set. But I don't have any evidence to suggest it being more than some random one-off product with the goal of having people buy regular Pathfinder.

And honestly? I'm not _expecting_ it's going to be anything other than a one-off attempt to shuffle people into the "full" game. I mean, I find it difficult to believe that Paizo would actually support 2 sets of rules; my opinion would improve quite a bit if they did, but I don't see it as a practical reality.

I wouldn't be surprised to see future Pathfinder products to at least suggest compatability with the Beginner Box if they happen to be early levels 1 through 5. So in that regards I think they can release supporting products that can easily be used by Beginner Box owners and by people playing with the full rules. I suspect the two will be compatable enough to allow me to generate a character from the full core rules and APG and still play with someone that has generated a character from the Beginner Box alone.

I do not think they will move into a realm of trying to support two sets of rules at the same time. It splits resources when all they really need is a way to make entry to the game easier.

As for the product being random, I don't see that. A lot of folks both here on these boards and on the Paizo boards have been asking for something like this before it was announced. Certainly a product to fill a certain niche, but one that was asked for.

That being the case, I can fall back to "I can't really get worked up about this product". I've already got a Pathfinder book so I can introduce people if I want, and I personally have extreme doubts about the number of people that have zero ties to rpgs and would be inclined to pick up the Pathfinder box that wouldn't be already be inclined to simply buy the "full" Pathfinder game anyway.

I am one that thinks the hurdle to a new player to Pathfinder with no RPG experience is too high for a new player. So I spend $50 on a core rulebook. First, it is huge and intimidating (to a new player), it has no monsters to actually fight, I have no idea about creating an adventure and I have no dice. Or, I see this Beginner Box and now I have a smaller book of rules, monsters to work with, starter adventures, a flip mat and tokens. To someone new to the game, which is more attractive? A big $50 rule book that doesn't include everything I need to get started or a $35 box set that I can take home and get started with right away?

Is this product going to hook people that have no idea what an RPG is? Likely not, but those people weren't likely to play RPGs anyways. This product *can* help hook people that are looking to play an RPG and get started and just looking for a way to get a start. We were all new to RPGs at one point.

 

[JeffB]

.... it is huge and intimidating (to a new player)...

It's huge and intimidating to this OLD player


on a general note-

Admittedly I'm a fan of 3.x mechanics, but not depth/level of rules, so I'm probably not the norm, but I can sure say that had *I* been starting out in 1977 and the PF corebook was the gateway product, or the 3.5 books, I'd never have continued on with RPGs. Even the LBBs as vague as they were were fairly easy to pick up and run a game, as you can easily wing it with the lack of hard and fast rules, and lack of need for rules mastery.

This beginner box, assuming it's nothing like the crappy boxed sets WOTC has been doing (and TSR during the 2E era), is always a welcome product, IMO. PF/4e/3.x are way too intimidating for the majority of 10 year old kids who otherwise may enjoy P&P FRPGs.

 

[Tamlyn]

How many people are nostalgic about the D&D Starter Kit? You know, this one:
Amazon.com: D&D Basic Game (Dungeon & Dragons Roleplaying Game: Core Rules) (9780786934096): Wizards of the Coast: Books

I am. I gave it to my brother for Christmas they year it came out and we played it with our dad while my young daughters looked on and our wives all rolled their eyes.

Just like I'm nostalgic about [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Dungeons-Dragons-Adventure-Johnathan-Tweet/dp/0786919515/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1305218436&sr=1-1"]The Adventure Game[/ame] that friends brought over to my house after they'd watched the horrible D&D movie. We sat around my coffee table learning the game while my wife rolled her eyes.

I plan on getting the Beginner Box to introduce my 3.5 group to PF and see if they're interested. But more importantly, I want to use it to introduce my daughters and nephew to the game with my brother. We'll build our own memories and nostalgia with them for this Beginner Box like lots of players here have for the original Red Box. While my wife rolls her eyes.

 

[deinol]

Most of those modules designed for B/X were also used for AD&D. That's how I played them back in the day. There will be modules for Pathfinder Beginner's Box. There already are. Any module for levels 1-5 should do.

I for one am looking forward to the Pathfinder E5 Box.

 

[Mark CMG]

"Pawns," indeed.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/news/306412-rpg-news-wednesday-25-may-2011-a.html