The Beloved Downtime and Gather Info

[beaver1024]

even 1/11 doesn't equal 99% though. And the craft scroll feat for wizards is not forced on them any more then cleics are forced to get turn undea or Rangers are forced to get Track.

It isn't about forcing the characters to take downtime. It is understanding that some people will want to. And you don't have to have a craft feat to want downtime. My fighter wanted some downtime to use the craft skill. Downtime is just a period when not a lot of interest is happening to the characters. It can be travel time, wintering in a castle, basic research, or just blowing off a few weeks drinking and enjoying life.

Certainly, if a character wants to take downtime, and the others want to adventure then of course the character who wants downtime doesn't have to go on the adventure. They just go do whatever they want to do, eg exercise class abilities and laze about, instead of adventure.

This is pretty much what the official Living Greyhawk system does. Players expend time units on something or other. Whether they choose to expend time units on adventure or on crafting items is up to the players but they can't do both at the same time.

 

[Crothian]

Ya, but living Greyhawk works differently then real campaigns so I wouldn't use that as a basis for anything. In most campaigns the players choose what they want to do, and many are willing to let the Wizard or who ever have some time to craft items. Or sometimes the Wizard has to hold off crafting something for a while until it is an approipriate time in the campaign to do so. The only times I see this not working is when the DM makes it so downtime is impossible or the players are selfish and won't allow someone a little time to do things.

 

[ThirdWizard]

Certainly, if a character wants to take downtime, and the others want to adventure then of course the character who wants downtime doesn't have to go on the adventure. They just go do whatever they want to do, eg exercise class abilities and laze about, instead of adventure.

Would you actually tell a player who wants to craft something not to show up for a session or more?

 

[beaver1024]

Ya, but living Greyhawk works differently then real campaigns so I wouldn't use that as a basis for anything. In most campaigns the players choose what they want to do, and many are willing to let the Wizard or who ever have some time to craft items. Or sometimes the Wizard has to hold off crafting something for a while until it is an approipriate time in the campaign to do so. The only times I see this not working is when the DM makes it so downtime is impossible or the players are selfish and won't allow someone a little time to do things.

Oh I see. When you say allowing for downtime, what you really mean is that the character who wants downtime forces all the other characters to have downtime as well whether they want it or not. Additionally the campaign has to be changed to support this as well (ie the BBEG will somehow halt their world invasion plans just because characters want downtime). I suppose this can work in some campaigns.

 

[beaver1024]

Would you actually tell a player who wants to craft something not to show up for a session or more?

They usually do this because they can't show up for a session or more. I rarely have this problem as none of my players play wizards anyway and thus I'm not constrained to change my campaign story to reflect frequent downtimes. My players also don't feel obligated to change their play styles or character builds to accomodate 1 class that is forced to have downtime to excercise their class abilities.

 

[Crothian]

Oh I see. When you say allowing for downtime, what you really mean is that the character who wants downtime forces all the other characters to have downtime as well whether they want it or not. Additionally the campaign has to be changed to support this as well (ie the BBEG will somehow halt their world invasion plans just because characters want downtime). I suppose this can work in some campaigns.

There is no forcing. IMC the players are mature enough to work these things out themselves. It might be an odd concept to some, players listening to each other and agreeing to wait on things so that a chacacter can take advantage of what the character can do. And not ever campaign has a BBEG invading.

But it is obvious to me you just cannot accept that downtime can be part of any campaign as long as the DM understands that the players may want some. You obviously have a very narrow idea of what a campaign has since I guess Big Bads are invading all the time so the players don't even have a chance to take a day off. And that's fine, it must work for you. But around these parts we understand that there is more then one way to run a game. And I don't suppose it can work in some campaigns, I know it can.

 

[beaver1024]

There is no forcing. IMC the players are mature enough to work these things out themselves. It might be an odd concept to some, players listening to each other and agreeing to wait on things so that a chacacter can take advantage of what the character can do. And not ever campaign has a BBEG invading.

But it is obvious to me you just cannot accept that downtime can be part of any campaign as long as the DM understands that the players may want some. You obviously have a very narrow idea of what a campaign has since I guess Big Bads are invading all the time so the players don't even have a chance to take a day off. And that's fine, it must work for you. But around these parts we understand that there is more then one way to run a game. And I don't suppose it can work in some campaigns, I know it can.

By the same token you cannot accept that campaigns can also work without downtime. Continually implying that players in those campaigns are selfish or immature do not show much maturity on your part.

At higher levels, crafting item does not just invovle 1 or 2 days off, it is weeks or months at a time.

 

[ThirdWizard]

They usually do this because they can't show up for a session or more. I rarely have this problem as none of my players play wizards anyway and thus I'm not constrained to change my campaign story to reflect frequent downtimes. My players also don't feel obligated to change their play styles or character builds to accomodate 1 class that is forced to have downtime to excercise their class abilities.

That doesn't sound like a game in which the players nor the PCs are playing together, but a game in which they happen to be sitting at the same table some of the time. I suppose its a valid play style, but not one I can imagine being a positive gaming experience for me nor the people I choose to play with.

Also, losing xp from crafting will be compounded by being made to miss sessions since you won't be making xp that others are making and you'll be losing more wealth probably than you're saving by crafting your own items! I see why noone does it in your campaign. They are punished for making magical items.

 

[Crothian]

By the same token you cannot accept that campaigns can also work without downtime. Continually implying that players in those campaigns are selfish or immature do not show much maturity on your part.

At higher levels, crafting item does not just invovle 1 or 2 days off, it is weeks or months at a time.

That's not true at all. I'm more then willing to accept in campaigns with zero downtime. I've played in them, I've ran them. My only point, is that it is easy to insert downtime in a campign if the DM and players want to. Even things that take months to create there are ways to work with that downtime, or the players can choose not to take that time. I let the players choose what they want to do, I don't force them to do anything. My only point about maturity was players working together and agreeing to take downtime or not. And is it selvish for players to not allow other players to have the downtime they want. They don't have to let them have downtime all the time, just work it out that they have some. Down time should be discussed at the beginning of the game if a player beleives his character will need lots of it. If the DM allows a character in the game that is expecting to make use of lots of craft feats and then has zero time for them, there has been a failure in the game.

 

[Sithobi1]

Try using the Craft Point system. The reasoning behind it may be a little bad, but the system itself works quite well. Also, it is not just wizards that need/want downtime. Clerics frequently want downtime to create their own items. Where do you think those potions/wands etc. of cure wounds come from?