The Beloved Downtime and Gather Info

[ThirdWizard]

Cleric's Player: I want to make a Staff of Healing. It'll help out a bunch in the future!
DM: Okay, skip the next two sessions, see you in three weeks!
Fighter's Player: Hey, make me a sword while you're at it, okay?
DM: See you in a month!

*one month later real time*

Cleric's Player: Hey guys, what's up?
DM: Everybody else leveled. I'm sure you'll be okay, though.
Figher's Player: Oh yeah, I don't need that sword anymore, I found a better one.
Cleric's Player: Don't worry, I'm just dropping by to say bye. I found a group that lets me use my feats without punishing me in the meantime.

I'm taking player's advocate here. If a player doesn't want downtime, it doesn't matter. But, if they do want downtime, I think it would be in your best interest to work with them instead of shunning their choices, much as a ranger who takes favored enemy animal should have opportunities to use that ability to their fullest at least occasionally. If a player wants to use a Craft feat then is told that they can't participate in adventuring for a time, I find that unfair to the player.

 

[RigaMortus]

Example of immature players (and DM for that matter):

Cleric's Player: I want to make a Staff of Healing. It'll help out a bunch in the future!
DM: Okay, skip the next two sessions, see you in three weeks!
Fighter's Player: Hey, make me a sword while you're at it, okay?
DM: See you in a month!

*one month later real time*

Cleric's Player: Hey guys, what's up?
DM: Everybody else leveled. I'm sure you'll be okay, though.
Figher's Player: Oh yeah, I don't need that sword anymore, I found a better one.
Cleric's Player: Don't worry, I'm just dropping by to say bye. I found a group that lets me use my feats without punishing me in the meantime.

I'm taking player's advocate here. If a player doesn't want downtime, it doesn't matter. But, if they do want downtime, I think it would be in your best interest to work with them instead of shunning their choices, much as a ranger who takes favored enemy animal should have opportunities to use that ability to their fullest at least occasionally. If a player wants to use a Craft feat then is told that they can't participate in adventuring for a time, I find that unfair to the player.

Example of mature players/DM:

Cleric's Player: I want to make a Staff of Healing. It'll help out a bunch in the future!
DM: Well you just completed your quest, and there is no impending danger that you know of. Is everyone cool with letting some game time pass to do odds and ends? Say two weeks?
Fighter's Player: Sure. I will train my swordplay during this time, which is a good explanation of me taking Weapon Specialization next level.
DM: Makes sense.

OR

Cleric's Player: I want to make a Staff of Healing. It'll help out a bunch in the future!
DM: You are free to do as you like, but I just want to remind you that the necromancer's ritual will be complete in 3 more days. Do you really want to take the time off now?
Cleric's Player: Ahhhh, good point. I guess I can wait a few more days until I start on the staff. On to the necromancer's tower!
Fighter 's Player: Here here!
DM: Ok...

You may be taking player's advocate, but this advocates for both the player's AND DM.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Wow, this thread has taken an...interesting...turn. :\

Beaver1024, I don't think anyone here--including Crothian--is suggesting a campaign without downtime can't succeed. Although as I mentioned upthread, my DMing style is to include a lot of downtime, the game I participate in as a player has little to no downtime. Our party has been caught in a struggle to keep the forces of evil at bay from day one, and the pace hasn't slowed down one whit in 20+ sessions.

A game with no downtime can work just as well as a game with lots of it. Downtime does not make or break a campaign.

However, as you yourself clearly realize, some abilities require downtime. This isn't a matter of classes, since the only automatic crafting feat in the game is Scribe Scroll, a class feature that doesn't take much downtime in the first place, and can be ignored in the second.

It is a matter of feat and skill choices. All the crafting feats, as well as the crafting skills, are going to require downtime to utilize. With that in mind, the key for any DM should be to let the players know how much downtime is going to be in the campaign, so the players can make informed choices when creating their characters. If the DM let's me know there'll be downtime, then perhaps I'll play a wizard and pick up that Craft Wondrous Item feat I've always wanted to play with. If the DM tells me the game will be a frenetic race against time to prevent the forces of Evil from overtaking the Free Lands, then perhaps instead I'll spend my wizard bonus feats on metamagic. In either case, I as a player can be satisfied that I'll be able to use my feats to their fullest.

It's only when the players are misinformed or not informed at all that problems can arise. No player likes to make his choices in the dark, then spend the rest of the campaign with abilities he's never allowed to use.

ThirdWizard also made a very significant point when he mentioned the tone of the players' attitudes. As a gamer, I've always played in campaigns in which the party was a cohesive whole. A team, which makes its decisions together, mostly for the good of the group. This includes what adventures to take, and when. So it makes perfect sense to me that the group might take some time off, if a PC needs some time to craft a magic staff, just as it makes sense to me that the entire party might head off to the North to help fulfill the quest of the barbarian, even though the rest of the party has no obligation to help him with his oath to his tribe. Party members work with and for each other. They aren't a group of self-centered individuals who refuse to do anything not in their own best interests.

Or at least that's been my experience. From your posts, it seems that your games are more focused on the individual. I'm not sure I'd be comfortable in such a game, save perhaps if it were in a gaming store where I only showed up occasionally to a revolving table of gamers...

 

[ThirdWizard]

You may be taking player's advocate, but this advocates for both the player's AND DM.

Unfortunately, my example was based purely on beaver's answer. =/
Note that the immature player and DM behavior was intended.
Note also in beaver's campaign that there is no waiting a few more days. In a few more days they'll have to save the world again, so the cleric will never have the option to make the staff. There is no downtime. Ever. If they want to make an item, they miss adventures, as quoted here:

Would you actually tell a player who wants to craft something not to show up for a session or more?

They usually do this because they can't show up for a session or more.
...
My players also don't feel obligated to change their play styles or character builds to accomodate 1 class that is forced to have downtime to excercise their class abilities.

This has *nothing* to do with how my games run. This is illistrative of how a player's desires should be considered when running a campaign.

I'm not really telling him to change his no downtime policy... But, when the player wants to craft something, they shouldn't suddenly find out that not only the world won't stop for them, but the other players and DM won't stop for them either.

just as it makes sense to me that the entire party might head off to the North to help fulfill the quest of the barbarian, even though the rest of the party has no obligation to help him with his oath to his tribe.

Okay that is totally freaky, because that happened last session in my game.

 

[PrinceZane]

Wow... I didn't ever expect this topic to get this heated. But anyway, there's a few things I've taken note of that I'll consider for my group. But our group generally runs, at least it sounds like, similar to Lord Pendragon's. After a quest, they go back to town to the inn (they don't have their own stronghold or anything yet) and generally pass out. Then everyday they meet (I think at 10:00) in the inn's common room to discuss what they want to do that day. Be it go shopping, just look around town for whatever (urban encounters, etc), do a bit of craft/smithing, or check out any rumors or happenings of interest (aka - start a new quest). And I have to say that this daily meeting has saved alot of time and stress trying to determine who's doing what and if it's a good idea. If the cleric wants to make that staff of healing, he mentions it. If they decide it's a good idea, they're go bum around town, or pick up a profession for the day for a small bit of cash, or whatever else. I don't know how everyone else does it, or alternate ways of doing things (other than chaotic), but this seems to work very well. Plus it saves the "But I'm still crafting" "No time! We're already obligated to save the princess" type of situations...

 

[lyle.spade]

It depends entirely on where the session ends. If we finish a chapter/adventure, the PCs will usually be back in their home city, or somewhere where they can rest and relax. My players email me and each other during the week and discuss what they're up to, what they'd like to accomplish, find out, buy, whatever...then I 'ok' the stuff, or not, depending on what they want.

If we don't complete a chapter, then we usually pause the game at some crucial point -- last night we ended with one of my PCs a statue, and another holding a severed medusa head, while standing over the comatose body of one of the leaders of the monsters they're facing...they moaned and groaned when I announced that we were going to stop at that point, but it was a good, cinematic cliffhanger moment (and thus I thought perfect for Eberron).

When my players do get a chance to relax, though, they generally communicate with me and each other through a combination of in-game speech and narrative, again by email.