4E The better part of valor... and opportunity attacks

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
I realized recently perhaps I am slow but the use of area effect wizard, druid etc abilities that allow someone to run past enemies with impunity is a good contribution to the monty python "run away" tactic.

D&D having some good run away fun always seemed important in a way. Hard to have McGuffin stories without it.

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Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
To add to that ... it really seems like something one might be able to pull off with a Bluff skill power.
 
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Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
For bluff instead of creating a Diversion to Hide you can create a Diversion to Escape : Describing the effect as your ploy draws enemies attention outside of the current conflict and are slow to respond to you and your allies. They are unable to make opportunity actions and are slowed during the round which follows. (or perhaps lose a move action?)
 
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Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Trying to see if i can find anything like it would like to find a utility power actually. Interestingly or ironically the Beguiling strands wizard at-will is more potent in terms of also doing psychic damage and causing enemies to grant CA if your enemies run in terror 5 squares (due to the enchanter type) that is very comparable to being slowed it felt overpowered when I read it but. Remove the damage and convert the enemies moving away to enemies lose a move action on the following round.

Like similar tricks the bluff for escape only makes sense as an encounter power, having it grant combat advantage to multiple enemies while it could work it becomes enough more potent that I am not liking that too much. Still I think its functional without the CA.

Since the Beguiling Strands moves the enemies away it seems likely the CA in that case would be harder to exploit so there is that. (to reduce its effective benefit)
 
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So, Monty Python reference aside, running away has never worked well in D&D. It seems like the monsters are either outright faster than the PCs, or one or more members of the party are just too much slower than the rest of the PCs, and that's it. Add to that figuring out you're overmatched only when there are allies downed, and other than a Word of Recall or something, you were out of luck.

In 4e, you could finagle it as a Skill Challenge, of course.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
In 4e, you could finagle it as a Skill Challenge, of course.
Indeed yes I am actually wanting to figure out ways to make the transition into that skill challenge work better chase scene skill challenges works great if you enable that transition but there is sort of a moment between that and the itemized action state I think which needs cleaned up and having more prominent abilities and powers that can do it (like the one for Bluff mentioned above). 4e with its more robust hit points and "bloodied" conditions seem they might be enough in the clue side (or they are for my players). Or is that something which would be useful?
I mean better analysis of enemies is a Warlord/Fighter trick after all. Insight skill for the win.
 
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So, Initiating Escape?

For instance: If none of your allies are in a threatened area of an enemy or restrained, immobilized, slowed, stunned &c (dazed should be OK), you can use your action to sound the retreat. You and all your allies move their speed away from the baddies, establishing a 'lead' and the Skill Challenge starts from there?

Actions that push/slide enemies or pull/slide allies, or remove the ability of enemies to take AoOs could facilitate meeting those requirements.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
One of the things which inspired this was the creation of a Martial Practice that allowed one to create a premade escape route at a location one which could well leave the enemy thinking you are dead and other advantages. Yay for the engineering skill (err dungeoneering if you must stay raw)
 
Oh, and the defender should totally be able to 'hold them off.' The defender doesn't have to be able to flee to initiate the Escape, and you can count any marked enemies as unable to take OAs, and not part of the first round of the SC. (Though exactly what the enemy 'does' in the SC I hadn't thought about... usually it's just PC actions...)
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Actions that push/slide enemies or pull/slide allies, or remove the ability of enemies to take AoOs could facilitate meeting those requirements.
Making Diversion to Escape a standard bluff combat use was my first thought (and having it do the no AoOs.

Oh, and the defender should totally be able to 'hold them off.' The defender doesn't have to be able to flee to initiate the Escape, and you can count any marked enemies as unable to take OAs, and not part of the first round of the SC.
Definitely
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
So would hold them off be an at-will intimidate utility power? Similar to the diversion to escape that does a mass mark and removes the attacks of opportunity for a round? perhaps involves lunges so you cover a larger area?
 
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As long as this is a Garthanos special thread, I should be able to quote myself. ;)

Oh, and the defender should totally be able to 'hold them off.' The defender doesn't have to be able to flee to initiate the Escape, and you can count any marked enemies as unable to take OAs, and not part of the first round of the SC. (Though exactly what the enemy 'does' in the SC I hadn't thought about... usually it's just PC actions...)
And, each round the Defender can keep enemies marked or hold a choke point or whatever, that's a success he contributes to the SC.

...then, consequences...


Failure: The encounter resumes in a new location. Or the party gets away but blunders into a new, perhaps even more difficult (in their weakened condition) encounter. Or the party escapes but fails to meet some important goal (loses travel time in a time-important situation, loses the chance to rescue an npc or retrieve an item, etc).

Success: Whole party escapes, if someone was 'holding them off,' he either got away, or the enemy eventually left him behind (for dead, if dropped) to chase after the party, so he re-joins them later. They get clean away, they only encounter those enemies again if they go looking for them, or return to an area they're guarding.

One failure: The party escapes but the enemy is still tracking them and could show up again at some point in the future. Or one ally who failed (or the defender 'holding them off') is captured or separated from the rest of the party for a time. Or, the party escapes but the failure gives the enemy a round of unanswered ranged attacks against them.

Two Failures: The party gets in a short rest before the enemy catches up to them. Or most of the party escape but some are captured or separated from them for a time. Or the party escapes, but faces a different (possibly easier or less hostile) encounter they blunder into in their flight.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Success: Whole party escapes, if someone was 'holding them off,' he either got away, or the enemy eventually left him behind (for dead, if dropped) to chase after the party, so he re-joins them later.
Very important clause there ... success doesn't just mean the party got away. The hero going down but "He got better" .... is important to thread theme even.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Skill challenges are a very robust mechanic when you can show progress in a visible fashion and chases have a very explicit sense of ticking time clock of enemies breathing down the back of your necks (so making the challenge explicit will work for many people). Splitting up and regrouping can make sense so different characters can distract enemies and the individual characters can exploit their own advantages.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
One of the things which inspired this was the creation of a Martial Practice that allowed one to create a premade escape route at a location one which could well leave the enemy thinking you are dead and other advantages. Yay for the engineering skill (err dungeoneering if you must stay raw)
A skill challenge could even be about getting the party back to that escape point which you created earlier. (which might have been with a ritual circle)

I can quote me too @Tony Vargas
 
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Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
So, Initiating Escape?

For instance: If none of your allies are in a threatened area of an enemy or restrained, immobilized, slowed, stunned &c (dazed should be OK), you can use your action to sound the retreat. You and all your allies move their speed away from the baddies, establishing a 'lead' and the Skill Challenge starts from there?
My thought is things like this need to be a player facing element in order to really work...
 
My thought is things like this need to be a player facing element in order to really work...
Yeah, I was thinking that if you set up clearly defined conditions that make initiating an Escape SC possible, players could then look for things to help make them happen. Like pushing enemies away from your allies so their free to run.

I suppose you could also just abstract it to an action and a check or power use by a PC. Like the bluff check to create a distraction to hide, but, instead, to run. Certainly familiar from genre - a character pretends to, IDK, have a bomb or the fantasy equivalent (a curse?) to make the enemy hesitate, then his buddies run for it.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
I suppose you could also just abstract it to an action and a check or power use by a PC. Like the bluff check to create a distraction to hide, but, instead, to run. Certainly familiar from genre - a character pretends to, IDK, have a bomb or the fantasy equivalent (a curse?) to make the enemy hesitate, then his buddies run for it.
Or the use of a War Horn to call allied troops which maybe they are there and maybe they arent.
 
Or the use of a War Horn to call allied troops which maybe they are there and maybe they arent.
Or, since it's D&D a magic horn that'll cave the roof in or something.

This could call for a group bluff check.

Craziest-seeming PC: "This it! I'm going to sound The Horn of Doom!"

Everyone else: "What? No! Wait! It's not worth it!!! OMG! Don't look at its face! We're all gonna die! Let's surrender instead? you'll accept our surrender, right? please. Stop him! He'll kill us all!"

And if they flub it, the baddies are all like "Uh-uh, we saw The Corbomite Maneuver in re-runs, too."
 

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