"The Big Big Book of Feats" by Anubis

Anubis · Oct 1, 2002

Update - September 30, 2002:

Added some errata by adding prerequisites to some of the Ki feats. These prerequisites make yuse of the Knowledge (ki) skill.

Oh, and I added ways to use Energy Manipulation and Epic Energy Manipulation to be able to fly.

Deset Gled · Oct 1, 2002

Ki as wisdom

Regarding the comments that Ki shouldn't be related to Wis because it represents life force, I tend to disagree. I don't think Ki abilities are a measure of life force so much as they are the measure of ones ability to tap into that life force. Thus, the characters experience in using their body, and channeling their energy should be the factor being used.

In terms of the game, most Ki abilities are really made for either monks or samurai. In terms of roleplaying, these characters should be wise and knowledgable, so using Wis to go along with Ki is also justifiable that way. In terms of Dragonball (and my limited knowledge of it), what about characters like Master Roshi? He's an old guy thats probably pretty frail and shouldn't have a high Con score, but he's trained a lot and would have learned attacks like the Kamehameha through a long amount of time learning and channeling, not because he's strong.

Anubis · Oct 1, 2002

Re: Ki as wisdom

Deset Gled said:
Regarding the comments that Ki shouldn't be related to Wis because it represents life force, I tend to disagree. I don't think Ki abilities are a measure of life force so much as they are the measure of ones ability to tap into that life force. Thus, the characters experience in using their body, and channeling their energy should be the factor being used.

In terms of the game, most Ki abilities are really made for either monks or samurai. In terms of roleplaying, these characters should be wise and knowledgable, so using Wis to go along with Ki is also justifiable that way. In terms of Dragonball (and my limited knowledge of it), what about characters like Master Roshi? He's an old guy thats probably pretty frail and shouldn't have a high Con score, but he's trained a lot and would have learned attacks like the Kamehameha through a long amount of time learning and channeling, not because he's strong.

I think there are plenty of examples in Dragonball that prove that Wisdom is not the score to key ki to. Goku, Vegeta, Yamcha, Krillin, Goten . . . They would all have low Wisdom scores, seeing as the all of them combined have very little wisdom, common sense, perceptions, or anything else related to Wisdom.

Basically, associating ki with Wisdom means that ki comes from the same course as a cleric's divine power. This certainly can't be the case. ANYONE, regardless of their Wisdom, should be able to access ki.

Regardless, one of the biggest pieces of proof is the very definition of ki itself, which is literally life force. That means the more life force (hit points in terms of the game) one has, the more ki one can use. What it boils down to is that outside of the monk class, there is zero justification for basing ki on Wisdom.

Deset Gled · Oct 1, 2002

ANYONE, regardless of their Wisdom, should be able to access ki.

I guess this is really the point where I disagree. Wisdom obviously isn't a perfect measurment of channeling ability, but I think that accessing ki should be harder to do that just gaining a feat along the way. Some others ways that I think make sense if you don't like wisdom would be the Concentration skill, or a new skill based on Constitution or Wisdom. At any rate, I don't think a knowledge skill is any better than Wis, because an Int skill seems much less likely than a Wis one.

Regardless, one of the biggest pieces of proof is the very definition of ki itself, which is literally life force. That means the more life force (hit points in terms of the game) one has, the more ki one can use.

This does make a lot of sense, but it refers to the pool that a character has to pull ki from, not their ability to pull it out of that pool (basically, having ki doesn't mean you can use it freely). Perhaps hit points could in some way limit the number of times a character can use ki in a day? For a lot of things I've read, ki attacks take up a stunning attack to use them (assuming that the character is a monk), or are only usable a few number of times a day. Perhaps instead of that, take the subdual damage that you have a character taking when they use ki attacks, and add those number up cummulatively throughout the day, then only allow the characters to continue using ki until that number reaches their number of hit points. This system is very similar to the way a psion uses power points. Taking subdual damage for using at attack seems a little too light of a punishment, because it's treatable too easily.

I guess one of my overall feelings is that you're going to allow characters to use ki attacks that are too powerful without paying enough of a cost for using them. For most game settings, its a little unbalaced. It is, however, a lot simpler, so if it works in your games, go for it.

Anubis · Oct 1, 2002

Deset Gled said:
I guess this is really the point where I disagree. Wisdom obviously isn't a perfect measurment of channeling ability, but I think that accessing ki should be harder to do that just gaining a feat along the way. Some others ways that I think make sense if you don't like wisdom would be the Concentration skill, or a new skill based on Constitution or Wisdom. At any rate, I don't think a knowledge skill is any better than Wis, because an Int skill seems much less likely than a Wis one.

I agree that Intelligence should have nothing to do with it. That's why it depends only on the number of *ranks* in the Knowledge (ki) skill, disregarding the total modifier due to any ability score. This skill represents actual training. I have considered making this a Wisdom skill instead of an Intelligence skill, and making it cross-class for all classes except for the Saiyan Elite, Monk, and other such classes, but as of yet I am undecided on that matter.

Any which way, though, Wisdom itself should not be the deciding factor. A skill and a series of feats work perfectly, because all ki uses require training, and the skill and feats represent that training.

Deset Gled said:
This does make a lot of sense, but it refers to the pool that a character has to pull ki from, not their ability to pull it out of that pool (basically, having ki doesn't mean you can use it freely). Perhaps hit points could in some way limit the number of times a character can use ki in a day? For a lot of things I've read, ki attacks take up a stunning attack to use them (assuming that the character is a monk), or are only usable a few number of times a day. Perhaps instead of that, take the subdual damage that you have a character taking when they use ki attacks, and add those number up cummulatively throughout the day, then only allow the characters to continue using ki until that number reaches their number of hit points. This system is very similar to the way a psion uses power points. Taking subdual damage for using at attack seems a little too light of a punishment, because it's treatable too easily.

Actually, in a balanced party on a full adventure, this isn't too light at all. Many of these feats have extreme prerequisites, and in addition, how many clerics will spend their healing spells just to heal subdual damage when no real damage has been taken? Subdual damage adds up in an adventure.

The idea does have merit, however, and I have considered such a thing, but considering one can knock oneself out or even kill himself using too much ki, I'm apt to stick with the subdual damage system in order to keep the balance.

Deset Gled said:
I guess one of my overall feelings is that you're going to allow characters to use ki attacks that are too powerful without paying enough of a cost for using them. For most game settings, its a little unbalaced. It is, however, a lot simpler, so if it works in your games, go for it.

In practice, I think you would notice it to be pretty balanced considering the more powerful ki feats are, realistically, unavailable before like Level 30 or above. Epic Energy Manipulation, which allows access to the more powerful ki abilities, requires a 22 Constitution score, six feats, and 23 ranks in Knowledge (ki). That means that MOST character will be Level 43 before they can have access! At that level, doing hundreds of points of damage is easy for all characters as it is. I don't see many people investing in the ki feats mainly because it takes a LONG time to get use out of them, and most can divert their resources to other things. That is the balance.

Only with Saiyans does the damage get ridiculous with these feats.

Anubis · Oct 3, 2002

Update - October 2, 2002:

I have added the "Ki Initiative" and "Superior Ki Initiative" feats to the list.

Anubis · Oct 4, 2002

Update - October 4, 2002:

I have added the "Damage Reduction Break" feat to the list.

Gryphon · Oct 7, 2002

Hmm

I did a nice big book of Feats myself, got somewhat slated for it on here actually. Which mighty peeved me actually.

It also got the attention of WOTC, and I found I didn't understand the OGL properly. BIG WOOPS there, seriously big WOOPS.

Quite like what you have here, they duplicate or parallel what I did, which shows many of us are on a similar course with these things. Unfortunately one of the things I got a caning over rom WOTC was the use of things like Dragons Toughness and so on because they are apparently not OGL. Only the stuff in the Core Rule Books are the only ones we can republish. Just thought I would give you a Word of warning m8. Mind you if you knicked em out of my book fair play to you I don't care. The Ki things look remarkably similar

Of course I spell it Chi but what the hey.

I should be republishing my book soon though, just got about 50 or so to fix so they don't infringe copywrite.

Anubis · Oct 7, 2002

Re: Hmm

Gryphon said:
I did a nice big book of Feats myself, got somewhat slated for it on here actually. Which mighty peeved me actually.

It also got the attention of WOTC, and I found I didn't understand the OGL properly. BIG WOOPS there, seriously big WOOPS.

Interesting . . . I never really thought about it, honestly . . .

Gryphon said:
Quite like what you have here, they duplicate or parallel what I did, which shows many of us are on a similar course with these things. Unfortunately one of the things I got a caning over rom WOTC was the use of things like Dragons Toughness and so on because they are apparently not OGL. Only the stuff in the Core Rule Books are the only ones we can republish. Just thought I would give you a Word of warning m8.

Hmmm . . . Well, this is just a guess, but I think I'll be okay. My variations are far enough from the originals that they do not break the OGL. After all, you can't copyright a general name, eh? My progression is so different . . .

For one, you can't take the feats in my Toughness chain multiple times, but rather only ONCE. Second, each one is a prerequisite for the next in the chain. Finally, they all lead to one HUGE feat at the end, that being Immortality.

Thank you for your concern, though. I did intend for these to be house ruled variations of existing feats. I have no intention to actually publish, however. I'm just posting these as a fan of the game as a list of my own personal house rules so that other may use them. I'm thinking that doesn't break the OGL, does it?

If you happen to wanna use any of them, feel free. I only ask that you give me a little credit note somewhere, just out of appreciation. Any which way, have fun in your ideas.