Re: Re: Re: Ki as wisdom
Note the use of the word learn. That is the key. How many more examples shoudl I give you of people in Dragonball Z with obviously low Wisdom that are very VERY good at using their Ki? Wisdom is not just perception, but also willpower, intuition, AND, most importantly for this discussion, COMMON SENSE.
So let's take a look at Dragonball Z. First off, if Wisdom were the key, then more Wisdom would equal more skill at using Ki. This also is obviously not the case. Lemme take THE top example to prove my case.
Gotenks.
This kid has NO common sense, very little perceptive ability, practically no intuition, but still plenty of willpower. If Wisdom were the combination of all of these things, then let's consider it like this, using the base 3-18 for stats in the game:
Willpower: 18
Common Sense: 5
Intuition: 7
Perception: 10
This comes out to an average of 10, giving Gotenks an average Wisdom AT BEST. That's counting the willpower. Yet, somehow, Gotenks had more skill with Ki than ANY OTHER ChARACTER IN THE SERIES. He could (presumably) use Vegeta's Gcallick-Ho, most certainly could use the Kamehameha (since Goten can), and created some of the most powerful attacks out of thin air! The Cosmic Halo and most importantly the Super Ghost kamikaze Attack were some of the most powerful. Only Buu's regeneration saved him from the latter. The Super Ghost Kamikaze Attack was arguably THE most powerful use of Ki in the entire series because it was powerful without tiring Gotenks too much at all.
How about Vegeta, who is so blinded by anger and rage through most of the series that he can't see straight?
Willpower: 17
Common Sense: 7
Intuition: 10
Perception: 14
That would be a mere 12 in Wisdom, yet he is easily one of the best with energy. Gotenks and Vegeta are certainly better with their Ki than Master Roshi is, and Master Roshi would have a 16 or 17!
This all points to one coclusion. There is NO ability score that controls access to Ki. It is done through innate ability (born with it) AND, more importantly, with TRAINING. Anyone from the wise to the dull can learn how to be perceptive and control body and mind as one to harness Ki. Some of the least wise in the entire series became masters. As for Ginyu, he simply didn't have the TRAINING to use Goku's potential.
Like I said, the problem is linking it to a stat. Doing so limits potential, when ANYONE actually has the POTENTIAL to use this stuff. NO stat can be linked to Ki. It simply requires training.
See my explanation above.
Technically, using only the PH and the ELH, a character could NEVER obtain this feat because "Remain Conscious" (Sword & Fist) is a prerequisite.
That aside, the ealiest a normal character could get this feat is around Level 58, although it wouldn't be very realistic. You'd have to be a multi-classes Human Paladin1/Monk1/Cleric1/Druid1/Barbarian1/Ranger1/Fighter52, and it would take damn near all of your feat choices. Reasonably, character's will access this around Level 76, likely closer to Level 80 or Level 100.
This is a VERY VERY VERY POWERFUL FEAT, so I made the prerequisites QUITE stiff.
karn smackdrim said:
Note the use of the word learn. That is the key. How many more examples shoudl I give you of people in Dragonball Z with obviously low Wisdom that are very VERY good at using their Ki? Wisdom is not just perception, but also willpower, intuition, AND, most importantly for this discussion, COMMON SENSE.
So let's take a look at Dragonball Z. First off, if Wisdom were the key, then more Wisdom would equal more skill at using Ki. This also is obviously not the case. Lemme take THE top example to prove my case.
Gotenks.
This kid has NO common sense, very little perceptive ability, practically no intuition, but still plenty of willpower. If Wisdom were the combination of all of these things, then let's consider it like this, using the base 3-18 for stats in the game:
Willpower: 18
Common Sense: 5
Intuition: 7
Perception: 10
This comes out to an average of 10, giving Gotenks an average Wisdom AT BEST. That's counting the willpower. Yet, somehow, Gotenks had more skill with Ki than ANY OTHER ChARACTER IN THE SERIES. He could (presumably) use Vegeta's Gcallick-Ho, most certainly could use the Kamehameha (since Goten can), and created some of the most powerful attacks out of thin air! The Cosmic Halo and most importantly the Super Ghost kamikaze Attack were some of the most powerful. Only Buu's regeneration saved him from the latter. The Super Ghost Kamikaze Attack was arguably THE most powerful use of Ki in the entire series because it was powerful without tiring Gotenks too much at all.
How about Vegeta, who is so blinded by anger and rage through most of the series that he can't see straight?
Willpower: 17
Common Sense: 7
Intuition: 10
Perception: 14
That would be a mere 12 in Wisdom, yet he is easily one of the best with energy. Gotenks and Vegeta are certainly better with their Ki than Master Roshi is, and Master Roshi would have a 16 or 17!
This all points to one coclusion. There is NO ability score that controls access to Ki. It is done through innate ability (born with it) AND, more importantly, with TRAINING. Anyone from the wise to the dull can learn how to be perceptive and control body and mind as one to harness Ki. Some of the least wise in the entire series became masters. As for Ginyu, he simply didn't have the TRAINING to use Goku's potential.
Rav said:
Like I said, the problem is linking it to a stat. Doing so limits potential, when ANYONE actually has the POTENTIAL to use this stuff. NO stat can be linked to Ki. It simply requires training.
Anabstercorian said:
See my explanation above.
War Golem said:
Technically, using only the PH and the ELH, a character could NEVER obtain this feat because "Remain Conscious" (Sword & Fist) is a prerequisite.
That aside, the ealiest a normal character could get this feat is around Level 58, although it wouldn't be very realistic. You'd have to be a multi-classes Human Paladin1/Monk1/Cleric1/Druid1/Barbarian1/Ranger1/Fighter52, and it would take damn near all of your feat choices. Reasonably, character's will access this around Level 76, likely closer to Level 80 or Level 100.
This is a VERY VERY VERY POWERFUL FEAT, so I made the prerequisites QUITE stiff.
