The bigger they are, the harder they are to kill

[Abe.ebA]

While reading a thread about the sizes of various Giants and the ways in which a Medium sized PC would take down a Huge sized target I was struck by something: grappling is the only mechanic which recognizes the size of a target creature. I mean, sure you get a bonus to hit, but that almost runs counter to the common sense problems of fighting something the knee of which is at eye level to you.

So I came up with the following:
When fighting an opponent whose size category does not match your own, you adjust the die size of the weapon you're using. Each size category of difference changes the die size by one. So a Medium human fighter fighting a Large hill giant using a shortsword would do 1d4 damage base, rather than 1d6. Conversely, the same fighter with a shortsword fighting a Small halfling rogue would deal 1d8 damage.

Then, so that PCs are not routinely destroyed by larger opponents we introduce a feat:
The Bigger They Are...
Pre-requisite: Knowledge (Nature): 5 ranks.
Benefit: You are able to make crippling strikes against creatures larger than yourself, taking advantage of their similarly larger pressure points, veins, and arteries. Any opponent who would normally be one or more size categories larger than you is treated as one size category smaller for purposes of determining the damage you deal on a successful attack.

Possibly also a spell which replicates the effect for a brief period by making the target's vascular and nervous systems glow visibly within their body.

Now, if something is at least 2 size categories larger than you are, you can get the effects of the above feat for free. Make a Climb check opposed by a Ref save (or maybe just a Dex check? Or Escape Artist?) on the part of the target. Success allows you to climb up onto the target, giving you access to vital locations like their head, neck, and back. If you both mount a target and have the above feat, you get to neglect two size categories. The so-mounted opponent can then spend a move-equivalent action attempting to shake you off. It's the same thing again: Climb opposed by Ref (or whatever) to shake the target off. Or they can take a Standard action to slam themselves bodily into a wall, the ground, or whatever is available dealing 1d6 (1d8?) damage per size category they are larger than you and percipitating the Climb check automatically to stay mounted. Maybe with a bonus on their side of the check proportional to the damage done?

We could also introduce a magical enhancement for weapons that negates a size category, or a feat that allows you to count as one size category larger for determining damage done by an opponent (maybe make this a bonus racial feat for Dwarves and Halflings, given their usual backstory with hatred of the big-uns?).

So what do you lot think? Good idea? Impractical? Totally un-workable? This is kind of an off-the-cuff thing I made up on my way to work today while thinking about PCs fighting giants and how it should be a lot cooler than it usually is. My primary inspirations being the fact that big things have thick skin and the special attacks versus the Ogre-y guys in God of War.

 

[Krelios]

Sounds like a great idea, but I worry about the added complexity. After all, if you try to make this realistic, what about all of the other mechanics that need reworking? I have (reluctantly) come to the opinion that I cannot make D&D realistic, so I don't add extra rolls/mechanics unless I feel they're absolutely vital and won't slow down game play.

 

[Land Outcast]

Interesting... but not much efficient.
Vs. a large creature,
a medium dagger would do avg. 1 damage less
a medium shortsword would do avg. 1 damage less
a medium longsword would do avg. 1 damage less
a medium bastard sword would do avg. 1 damage less
a medium greatsword would do avg. 2 damage less

so, maybe we should add something else to make a medium creature fighting a large creature, be scared.

 

[Abe.ebA]

Interesting... but not much efficient.
Vs. a large creature,
(snip)
so, maybe we should add something else to make a medium creature fighting a large creature, be scared.

Large creatures I don't really have a problem with. Yeah, 8-15 feet is big, but it's not insurmountable. Given a 3+ foot long steel blade or a polearm or something, whacking a 10 foot tall creature in the face is far from impossible and you can still reach all the other vital areas pretty well. It's the bigger creatures that I was thinking about. Like the whole situation with dragons (and similarly sized beasts). You're standing in the square adjacent the dragon, its body is probably slightly overhead and its head is way the heck up in the air, so the only thing you can reach are the claws and heavily-armored legs...but your attacks are perfectly effective. If you do climb up onto the beast using some ad-hoc judgement from the DM, you maybe get an attack bonus at the DM's discretion. And even if you have climbed up on top of a Gargantuan sized opponent... how are you going to hurt it with a 6" long dagger?

I admit it's a bit complex and could probably do with some streamlining. It just seems like whenever the topic of Medium adventurers vs. Huge+ adversary comes up the answer is "yeah, but you can just climb up onto it and then stab away" despite that there are no rules for doing so. I'm hardly one of those "there have to be rules for everything" people, but this seems like a big oversight to me. Maybe just give creatures DR 2/-- for every size category larger they are, rather than reducing die size? Then a dagger would be useless vs. Huge+ without a feat.

What about the climbing-up-the-beastie bit? It doesn't seem that complex (to me, at least). One check to see if you can get up on them, then they have the option of trying to shake you off. Less complicated than grapple, at least If we went the DR route, climbing up on them could just give a +2 bonus to damage. Then if you have a spell/item/etc that negates their DR in the first place you get a bonus from having climbed them anyway. Any suggestions?

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

Your intentions are noble but your mods are impractical. Imagine getting a group of PCs to agree/remember this rule? It gives me a headache just thinking about it. I myself am working up a gaming system from the ground up and ran into this problem myself. My solution is to apply a +/-2 mod to weapon damage per size category away from medium (I don't change die type for size). In addition, all creatures have +/-2 DR for every size category away from medium. So a human swinging a longsword at an ogre will still deal 1d8 damage but the ogre will knock off 2 from whatever the roll is. Very cut and dry, as I like it.

 

[thompgc]

As if the fighters don't have it hard enough

I always just figure the reason most things that are larger have more HD/HP is in part because they are bigger.

Do you make area effects more effective against larger opponents?

 

[Sir Brennen]

But... isn't this idea modeled somewhat already by the fact that larger creatures tend to have more hit points? And since weapon damage changes based on wielder size (including natural weapons), a Medium creature already has their damage reduced when attacking a Large creature, relative to another Large creature attacking the same target.

Game Design rule #15: Don't model the same thing twice.

 

[Land Outcast]

Climbing (quick comment before I leave the PC)...
I've dreamt with working up something to do with that...

 

[ChrisHaines]

I incorporated a mechanic to address this situation. If the target is three sizes larger than the weapon, the weapon only deals Subdual damage. If the target is four or more sizes larger than the weapon, the weapon deals no damage. Vice versa, if the weapon is three sizes larger than the target, its critical threat range is "doubled". If the weapon is four or more sizes larger than the target, then the critical threat range is "doubled" twice.

 

[Paraxis]

As posted above the average amount of damage reduced by your rule is only 1 point or so per size category. The problem with high take down rate of big monsters is the bonus to the damage roll from things like smite evil and power attack. Two ways I see to fix the problem use the old school rule from I think 2E maybe 1E that bonus to damage is caped by the base die of the weapon ie most a medium dagger can do is (1d4+4) from power attack and such add magic on top of that. The other idea is just give them more Hit Points this is what I do.
My house rule on toughness is 3+1 point over 3rd level or 3 hit die, can take multiple time effects stack, no improved toughness feat. I then give it free to all monsters with a normal size of large or bigger once for each size over medium. Makes it simple and clean. Also give it to my undead once for free as a bonus....and zombies get improved grab(braaaaainnssssss) but thats off topic. I always hated the 3 foot of steel hurting the dragon the size of a football field but then again this is a game with fireballs and wishes so things like that just happen.