D&D 4E The Blood War in 4E?

[Stogoe]

The Blood War was easily one of the worst parts of the Great Wheel. I'm glad both of them are gone.

 

[Spatula]

It seemed to me the Blood War was only ever a handwave to explain why the endless forces of extraplanar evil didn't conquer the Prime. I suppose given the changes to outsiders in 4e (in that it's supposed to be much harder for them to reach the "real" world), there's no longer a need for it. Though it makes you wonder what those endless hordes actually occupy their time with... which is something I already wondered WRT the non-evil outsiders.

In any case, as it was only flavor applied to the default cosmology, there's nothng stopping you from still using it.

 

[Dire Lemming]

I'm surprised by how many people so passionately hate the blood war. I can't understand why.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I'm surprised by how many people so passionately hate the blood war. I can't understand why.

It makes for dumb villains, I guess. If villains are going to turn their firepower against each other instead of the heroes, there had better be a really good reason for that.

I think it would have been a better idea to just not let the demons visit the Prime so easily. That way, the artificial limiter of the Blood War wouldn't be needed.

But that's just me, speaking as someone whose only experience with Planescape was reading a few 2e gamebooks and lore on the Githyanki/Githzerai.

 

[The Little Raven]

I'm surprised by how many people so passionately hate the blood war. I can't understand why.

Because the whole "evil fights evil because law hates chaos!" explanation felt silly, when it would make more sense for them to fight good (especially chaotic evil against lawful good). It makes more sense for evil to ally with evil to annihilate good before turning on itself, but the TSR "comic book code" made them portray all villains as incapable of overcoming the forces of good, no matter how much power is in their favor.

 

[Shadeydm]

I never liked the bloodwar or sigil good riddance to both! Finally some 4E fluff I actually like yay!

 

[FourthBear]

I'm surprised by how many people so passionately hate the blood war. I can't understand why.

Because it greatly withdrew the focus of demons and devils from what I felt should always be their main focus: corrupting mortals and warring against the forces of Good. Stories about fiends like demons and devils focus on their attempts to tempt mortals, escape from Hell and defy the forces of Good. That's what they should be doing, not wringing their hands over if they have enough soldiers for the latest offensive in a cosmic war that's been going on for ages with no resolution (and is obvious to a three year old to be utterly pointless). I don't care how many time Planescape told me how wonderfully mysterious and awesome the Blood War is. I never bought it for a second as anything other than a contrived element about the pointlessness of conflict.

 

[Valiantheart]

I did not like nor dislike the Blood War, but all this 4E fluff sounds like the designers have a wicked case of "our fluff is better than your fluff". Half of their explanations for the changes sounds like a 12 yeard old throwing a tantrum and calling you stupid for not immediately agreeing with their view points and eschewing the old.

 

[The Little Raven]

I did not like nor dislike the Blood War, but all this 4E fluff sounds like the designers have a wicked case of "our fluff is better than your fluff".

Well, when "your fluff" was about a pointless war between the cosmic evil forces of law and chaos (who somehow never seem to make any progress on any front)... well... anything is better than that.

Half of their explanations for the changes sounds like a 12 yeard old throwing a tantrum and calling you stupid for not immediately agreeing with their view points and eschewing the old.

Got any quotes to back this up?

Otherwise, you're just assigning motivations and insulting the maturity of people who aren't here to defend themselves, while presenting zero proof of your point, and further reinforcing this merely being an attempt at insult.

 

[Lord Zardoz]

I'm surprised by how many people so passionately hate the blood war. I can't understand why.

Because the whole "evil fights evil because law hates chaos!" explanation felt silly, when it would make more sense for them to fight good (especially chaotic evil against lawful good). It makes more sense for evil to ally with evil to annihilate good before turning on itself.

I suspect that the divide between liking and hating the Blood War roughly correlates to the divide between people who like or hate the Law / Chaos axis of the alignment system. In order to accept the premise of the Blood War, you have to be willing to accept the idea that the Law vs Chaos aspect of the alignment system is more important than the Good vs Evil aspect.

That in turn would vary from DM to DM. In general though, I do not see very many posts extolling the Law vs Chaos aspect of their games, but I actually like it myself.

END COMMUNICATION