D&D 5E The "Bonus" Turn for high Initiative

[FarBeyondC]

Open for discussion: is this a decent idea? too much/OP? I am toying with it for now, and would like some constructive feedback (please not just "this is a bad idea"--tell me why! ).

If I ever decide to get a homebrew game off the ground, I was going to do something similar.

In my case, anyone with an initiative of at least 30 would get two turns every round (a full turn on their initiative count and a reduced turn (half speed + action or full speed + bonus action) on their initiative count minus 20). If someone managed to have an initiative above 40, the reduced turn would become a full turn.

In any event, given yours is just a 1st round thing, the only thing I'd suggest is raising the bar a bit, to say initiative 25, as initiative 20 seems a little to easy to reach for the effect.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Terrible Idea. Dexterity is stron enough.
You could also say that being first might result in a bonus turn. You go first. Enemy next. You again and kill. You might have been killed on the enemy's second turn if they had gone first and you would have been left with one less turn than the enemy instead of vice versa.

 

[clearstream]

This is the misconception. After the first turn in cyclical initiative, it really doesn't matter due to the I go-you go cycle.

That's not quite right. One way to illustrate this is consider foes with exactly 10 HP dealing exactly 2 HP damage when they act. First actor always wins because in the final turn they apply their damage increment first.

At any point in the sequence, the best second actor can achieve is to have had an equal number of turns as first actor. Whereas once each cycle, first actor will be one turn ahead.

Additionally one needs to consider the extent to which the mechanics support alpha strikes. Without going into too much detail, combats are often a half dozen rounds long. Offering a double-turn up front is a pretty big percent of the expected number of actions, so can be predicted to be very strong. In the long run initiative will draw more investment and feats like Alert will become common early picks.

Theory-crafting, it sounds like a bad idea If you try it, can you report back after several sessions!?

 

[DND_Reborn]

Well, with the character I described earlier who really works for the bonus +11 Initiative, we can do some simple math.

50/50 (roughly...) you roll 21 or higher
50/50 the enemy rolls 10 or less

About 1 in 4 if the enemy has no bonus. Since the enemy likely will have some, even if small... maybe 1 in 5 or 6. Also, this build put a lot into initiative, so if you lower the bonus, maybe 1 in 8 to 10?

For our sessions, with each character rolling each combat, I would say it would be likely to occur once or twice per session, maybe more.

Perhaps tomorrow morning before work I'll actually DO that math instead of just estimate it.

So, I did the math. Obviously a lot depends on your modifier and your foe's. The difference column is your higher modifier minus your foe's. If you are +11 and they are +3, the +8 difference would mean you would have a 9% chance per encounter of gaining the bonus round.

For our group with five characters, we might see this happen once or twice a session at most. If we decide to do it, I'll let people know how it plays out.

Thanks for all your feedback.

 

[Gadget]

At first glance (and depending on party composition and play style), initiative does not seem to do much beyond the first round due to the cyclic nature of initiative in d20 D&D. The whole "spokes of the wheel" analogy quoted above. Sure, there's the odd ability like the assign's assassinate that is key to going first at the beginning of combat, but those are more outliers.

I'm not sure I agree with that take though. The 'cycle' eventually comes to an end, whether by total defeat of one side or the other or by some other means (fleeing, etc.). How the cycle ends is very important to participants, and as such, can be viewed as a linear process. This is where the "spokes of the wheel" analogy falls apart for me, because it does not matter to the wheel what order the spoke go in, as it is an infinite cycle from the wheel's perspective. Now if three of the eight spokes where going to fall off after two rotations, depending on the order, then it is a very different matter. Say we change the order of the spokes and only two of the eight spokes fall off after two rotations, does the order matter? Yes, especially if you are one of the spokes that falls off.

Let's face it, in many of the combats in D&D, the PCs will win if they win or lose initiative. But the difference will be how much resources the combat is likely to cost the party (Hit points, spells, single use items, etc.). Add in all the "Control" type abilities in the game that can deny or severely limit the actions of an opponent through optimal play, and going first becomes a bit more important. "Gaming" the initiative order to set up devastating one-two-three punches before oponants can act is very possible, depending on party composition and skill. That is probably why Mearls suggested his Greyhawk Initiative a couple years back, to randomize the process a bit more.