The Case For Castles & Crusades

[tenkar]

Loved the blog. I'd like to comment further when I have time.

Now, we've said all along that C&C works with any edition of D&D. Is that still true with 4th edition?

I'm not so sure about that. 4e doesn't play well with 3.5e. My gut tells me little will port over easy, but I've been surprised by C&C in the past. With the possible exception of healing surges I'm not sure which parts of 4e I'd have an interest in porting over.

 

[Dragonhelm]

I'm not so sure about that. 4e doesn't play well with 3.5e. My gut tells me little will port over easy, but I've been surprised by C&C in the past. With the possible exception of healing surges I'm not sure which parts of 4e I'd have an interest in porting over.

Then let me also pose the counter-question. Can materials from C&C be used with 4e? Can 4e be run kind of like how C&C is run?

 

[Dragonhelm]

Lets say I want to use C&C, but I want 3e's 3-save system and Saga/4e's Trained/Untrained Skill System. It seems this would throw a giant monkey wrench in the SIEGE/Primes system as written.

First, let me say that this sounds like a nifty set of house rules you have. I don't think it would throw as big of a monkey wrench in as you think. As it stands now, the 3 saves are already built into C&C as six saves tied to the ability scores. So it's there already, even if not in the same exact form. If you want to use the 3e saves, then you just run it using the SIEGE engine rules - d20 + ability score modifier + Level.

I am also concerned about how using a 4e skill set would break skill-dependent classes like ranger or rogue.

How so?

I'm interested to hear how others have modified C&C to actually incorporate some other D&D/d20 rules...

I used a skill system based on the d20 system where I had level replacing ranks. I think I would revamp that some these days with the release of 4e. I've also seen several people implement feats in one way or another.

 

[zacharythefirst]

Loved the blog. I'd like to comment further when I have time.

Now, we've said all along that C&C works with any edition of D&D. Is that still true with 4th edition?

Thanks very much!

In response to this one, I'm going to have to give a definite "jury is still out". I think some of the at-will powers of 4e are sort of at odds with how C&C defines combat and how you work what happens in there, but I don't know that you couldn't add those sorts of things on as per day or at-will powers. It might take the game in some interesting (unintended?) places.

I do think of all the editions of D&D, 4e might be the toughest to bring elements to C&C, but I'm thinking you could. I'd love to hear of someone who's had success with it. A lot of my experience comes using C&C with 1e modules, 3e sourcebooks, and a small smattering of 2e stuff.

 

[Treebore]

Anything can work with C&C, just depends on how you want to do it.

Like how I do feats from 3E. I don't do feats, per se, I just allow anyone to do a SIEGE check to attempt any Feat like action they can think of.

Skills, I went with a "Everyone has 10 skills, but if you take a class skill you treat it as TN 18, then add level and modifiers." I too got rid of ranks and just went by level and attributes. The +6 from being Prime versus non Prime was plenty of variation for skills.

As for 4E, I liked the mages ability to cast spells all day long, so the way I am adapting it to C&C is as follows:


SPELL CASTERS:
A new class ability for ALL spell casters, except Paladins.

Divine/Arcane blasts. These are a pure energy attack that any spell caster can use every other round as long as they do not cast any spells on the round in between. Yes, this means all day long. This is because that round is a recharge/gather the power round. This attack requires a "To hit" roll versus the targets AC, but the casters BtH for purposes of this attack is equal to their level and its modified by their DEX. Damage is 1d4 per level of the caster and requires a "item" as the component for this ability. It costs 20 GP per dice of damage. Typically a cleric uses their Holy Symbol and Arcane Casters most frequently make a wand.

As usual, I do allow a SIEGE check to cast this every round, it will be CON based, and failed checks will cost a temporary loss of one CON point to simulate the exhaustive nature of wasting the energy as well as gathering it so quickly. The CL will equal the amount of dice you want to do for damage, and the base TN will always be 12, since this is now a "Class Ability" for all spell casters.

So C&C can have anything used with it, but I am enjoying turning it into the SIEGE system rather than porting the whole idea over as is.

 

[danbuter1]

Treebore,

That's a pretty cool houserule.

 

[zacharythefirst]

I find Treebore is chock full of awesome ideas.

 

[Deuce Traveler]

I like that Judge's Guild and Goodman Games have tied some of their projects to the CnC system. I find Wilderlands of High Fantasy works well with CnC.

 

[zacharythefirst]

I like that Judge's Guild and Goodman Games have tied some of their projects to the CnC system. I find Wilderlands of High Fantasy works well with CnC.

Adventure Games Publishing has done some really nice work that ties into C&C as well, to be sure!

 

[Garnfellow]

I've never been a huge fan of C&C. Executive summary: it takes out too many of the things I liked about 3e and adds in too many things I didn't like about earlier editions, as well as a couple of new things that don't float my boat.

But that said, after reading through Castle Zagyg: Upper Works, I'm finding that C&C makes a freaking fantastic lingua franca for all other D&D variants. I could easily see using CZ with 3e, Labyrinth Lord, Osric, or Pathfinder. (4e looks like it would be a lot tougher, though MerricB seems to be getting along just fine.)

So while I wouldn't play C&C on its own, I do think it makes great edition neutral material.