D&D General The Case for Evil Orcs (Minor Rings of Power Spoilers)

[GMforPowergamers]

I would argue it does because it both informs the fiction and suggests solutions.

okay

For example, if orcs aren't inherently evil servants of the Dark Lord, then immediately the question of why are these orcs attacking this town comes up. That implies some things about the world and invites questions, and it will likely suggest solutions beyond "exterminate!" to the players.

again that "why are they doing this" is a normal question in my games... sometimes "They are mustache twirling villains" is the answer... but not often.

If, however, the orcs are in fact the inherently evil minions of Darkus'lordus, then that implies a different story -- why does DL hate this town? -- and puts the PCs in a different frame of mind.

but if these orcs are wearing the sigil of Darkus'lordus that does the same (hand of sauromon) even if 3 leagues from here is a 3/4 orc community that is a nice fishing village that the town trades with.

Note that I am not saying one is better than the other for any given game, even if in the context of this thread I would advocate the latter.

right I just dont see much diffrence

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Were the Romans evil? How about Genghis Khan? How about Leopold II of Belgium?

humans are the most evil race... so most likely

 

[Stormonu]

Evil orcs, goblins, kobolds and the like have never gone away from my game. At the same time, this hasn’t precluded players from making such characters who weren’t inheritantly evil. I still get to use the humanoid races as fodder, and the players still get to tell their tales as atypical members of these races.

And no, NPCs don’t automatically go out of their way to obstruct or kill these PCs. You could call it the “heroic factor” if you will; unless the player chooses to act as evil as their kin, NPCs essentially sense there is something different about the PC, and they are accepted/tolerated about as much as any other adventurer in the area.

 

[John R Davis]

Dark Sun?

That will never be a D&D publication again, or not the DS we remember.
Amongst all the deeper thought and pondering it is nice to have an enemy that needs to be fought with all your gusto and relentlessness.
Whether it's Ice Walkers, Slavers, 'Aliens', Zombies, Killer Robots, etc.

It's only 2 episodes in but I like the orcs thus far

 

[Maxperson]

I refuse to believe that reasonable people think crappy racial stereotypes are perfectly acceptable to include in their entertainment, unless they simply don't realize what's there. Hence, speaking out against it.

That's the dispute. A lot of us don't agree with the opinion that an inherently evil race in a game has anything to do with real world racial stereotypes. Clearly that's your opinion and you are entitled to it, but we don't have to share it.

 

[Vaalingrade]

For the most part, it does. We have drow for elves and half-elves, duergar/derro for dwarves, spriggans for gnomes, orcs for half-orcs...the only ones missing are halflings and humans, and the 3E Book of Vile Darkness (affiliate link) gave us jerren (evil halflings) and vashar (evil humans). Maybe we should have kept those latter two.

Let's never allow anything from the BoXD's into the game again.

 

[Voadam]

Let's never allow anything from the BoXD's into the game again.

I am quite a fan of the Demon Lords and Archdevils. I wish the Book of Exalted Deeds had more narratively on the Celestial Lords.

 

[Micah Sweet]

If the creature is "killable" non-person, then it cant be sapient, mustnt resemble any reallife cultures or combination thereof, and is better off without the capacity of language.

If one wants killable, fight automaton constructs.

If one wants persons, then one enters the reality of interpersonal ethics.

Unless they don't want to enter that reality and would rather just play the game.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

@Reynard, perhaps you should use the white walkers from GoT instead. Inherently evil, we assume, yet not charged with the racial issues Orcs have become.

funny thing, there is a non zero amount of fans/theorists that predate the show (but the show added too) that think there is no big fight at the end... you can't beat the walkers in war but have to treat with them... to learn they aren't really the 'other'

 

[Vaalingrade]

I am quite a fan of the Demon Lords and Archdevils. I wish the Book of Exalted Deeds had more narratively on the Celestial Lords.

'Sexy Horse Lady' and 'literally everyone fights tyranny' aren't enough for you?