The Cosmology of Eberron

[demiurge1138]

When the "Far Realms" behaves like the other kids, it's just another plane. There's demons from the Abyss, slaadi from Limbo, archons from Celestia, and pseudonatural things from the Far Realms. They no longer are alien. They just are another category of outsiders.

I prefer when they aren't just another category of outsiders, but something other, not really understood. When the Far Realms are really far. When these things are impossible to describe or understand really, just because they don't obey the same rules as the universe. In short, when they're there, but without being supposed to be there. An anomaly. Not bound by the forces of alignments, not present in the same dimensions as the creation, not even really existing (see Sepulchrave's Chtonic creatures to get a rough idea, except Sep's chtonics are demons).

I can definately see where you're coming from, but the way I see it, in the Eberron setting, the Far Realm isn't Far, just farther. It's the most distant and feared of the planes, and if I ran an Eberron campaign, it'd be the least known, being commonly heard of only in the nightmares of the planar astrologers. The pseudonature would remain distant and bizarre, but not entirely unknown, explaining why it only takes 8 ranks of Knowledge: planes to summon up a tentacled horror and start taking levels of alienist.

Although it's not quite as flavorful and true to the Lovecraftian origins of the Far Realm as it is in the MoTP, I can see why Keith Baker would "standardize" the Far Realm.

Demiurge out.

 

[Michael Tree]

The plane of the dead sounds a lot like the Greco-Roman hades, the despairing grey realm where all dead souls go to and fade to shades of their former selves.

I do agree that the planes are a bit too straightforward. I also think there are too few of them. It would be more interesting to me if these 13 were only the "major" planes, with an uncertain number of minor planes, with smaller, more localized, and more unique natures. If the 13 planes are the planets in a solar system, then the minor planes or demiplanes would be its asteroids and comets, most of them unusual and hard to detect until they become coterminous.

 

[Alzrius]

I personally prefer all of D&D to take place within a single cosmology (in the 2E sense)...if we can't have that, then I'd at least like it stated somewhere that you can "cosmology-hop" via the Shadow Plane (stated more definitively than in the MotP, though I suppose that's enough).

That said, this planar arrangement isn't bad, but a lot of the ideas really seem recycled. I mean, one plane pretty much just says "this is Arcadia", and there are quite a few others that could just as easily be the Far Realm, the Beastlands, the Plane of Fire, etc. It's different, but not different enough (that we've seen so far) to justify reinventing the (Great) Wheel again.

 

[Henry]

Otherwise, it makes for a very depressing universe. Why would a good-aligned person decide to have children, if creating a new mortal life means damning one new soul to eternal apathy and consuming despair?

What if the way out, is to be born?

It certainly does have an existentialist sort of feel to it, doesn't it? "we are nothing, but what we do" sort of thing?

 

[Olive]

That said, this planar arrangement isn't bad, but a lot of the ideas really seem recycled. I mean, one plane pretty much just says "this is Arcadia", and there are quite a few others that could just as easily be the Far Realm, the Beastlands, the Plane of Fire, etc. It's different, but not different enough (that we've seen so far) to justify reinventing the (Great) Wheel again.

People keep saying this, but there's almost no way to get rid of elemental and alignment planes without seriously effecting the way magic etc. works in game. I think that this is as far as you could realistically go while keeping the whole thing fairly core. My understandng is that Baker wanted everythign in your main DnD books to work in Eberron and this goes a long way to making that idea possible.

 

[Olive]

No, I'm not kidding. When the "Far Realms" behaves like the other kids, it's just another plane. There's demons from the Abyss, slaadi from Limbo, archons from Celestia, and pseudonatural things from the Far Realms. They no longer are alien. They just are another category of outsiders.

I totally agree with this, and in a wierd way this is a problem with the alienist class: it makes the far realms approachable and accesible.

 

[Alzrius]

People keep saying this, but there's almost no way to get rid of elemental and alignment planes without seriously effecting the way magic etc. works in game. I think that this is as far as you could realistically go while keeping the whole thing fairly core. My understandng is that Baker wanted everythign in your main DnD books to work in Eberron and this goes a long way to making that idea possible.

You misunderstand my complaint. I'm not advocating getting rid of the elemental and alignment planes, I'm saying that they're trying to redesign the paradigm, but not making any changes that are deeper than skin deep. If you have a plane that's just like Arcadia, then just call it Arcadia! Ditto the Plane of Fire, Far Realm, et al. Don't change the names and alter a few denizens and say that this is a totally different plane.

 

[Olive]

You misunderstand my complaint.

You're right, I did. What you say makes a lot of sense.

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

A great take on the desparing realm of the dead is the one in Exalted. Though it has nothing directly to do with Eberron, I'm always glad to see despairing realms of the dead cause I can then use them with that product.

Which is my way of defending skin deep, or rather high formal, changes.

I like different enough to be interesting.

I also like common enough to share.

The way out of despair in Exalted is to give it all up and be born. A position which really only, in a certain sense, reinforces the despair.

On the other hand, you can also work to be an honorable ancestor and have your ghost help out your descendants.

Do you think there is any chance of Eberron having honorable undead?

 

[Stone Dog]

Do you think there is any chance of Eberron having honorable undead?

There is a theory that the major elven pantheon is comprised of the combined essence of undead ancestors. It has been mentioned that elves revere their ancestors to the point of keeping them alive with necromancy to continue to guide the nation. This may be "The Undying Court" that has been mentioned as one of the options for clerics.


As for Xoriat (the Far Realm equivalent), it hasn't been heard from for over 7,000 years. All knowlege about it is hearsay at best at this point. All that is known is that the first order of Druids was formed to battle the threat and seal it away. Any rules that are set down in the book (if any) would be what sages remember at best. Even elven ancestors may shudder at the thought and dare not speak of the Things that dwell Outside. All the flavor text I have read about Xoriat is the same as the Far Realms other than the name.

On that note, someone was talking about how made up names were irritating since things are really named after other things like famous people and gods. Well, my guess is that the names of the planes are (mainly in the rain? <smack>) ancient. They are probably 7,000 year old names that have been altered and shifted through the ages till they aren't recognizable anymore as what they once were. Perhaps even the original language has been forgotten.

I like the new names myself. I do not miss the plane of fire when fernia evokes 'inferno.' I think there will be differences aplenty when the full versions come out. It is much less irritating to me than FR having the same names as the Wheel planes but not actually being on the wheel.

Anyway, it is 3:10 in the morning and I can't even believe I am posting this late (early?). If I come off a trifle brusque I appologize and will attempt to be more coherant tomorr.... later today.