The Cthulhu Mythos and D&D homebrews

[kenjib]

Aye, but just because the other authors who were doing Mythos stuff "got it", doesn't mean you could grok all the themes of the Mythos by reading one or two mythos stories.

Compare this to Conan. You read one Conan story, by REH, you've read them all. The themes of the genre are simple, and instantly identifiable. On the other hand, you could read The Rats In The Walls and Dagon and still have no clear idea of what the Cthulhu Mythos was all about. I think the comparison is particularly relevant because REH's work got explored by various authors as well.

But if you read the Colour out of Space, the Whisperer in the Darkness, the Shadow out of Time, or Call of Cthulhu, for example, you would understand pretty much everything important that you need to understand from a single story. If you read his complete body of works, you get a much more complete picture. Does his complete body of works not count? Maybe I misunderstand what you were saying.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

P.S. For what it's worth, I also think that Lovecraft's writing style is great. Instantly recognizable, his grotesquely baroque ornamentations were perfectly matched to his subject matter. As Skade said, H.P. Lovecraft seemed to write like a fevered madman (Byronic, perhaps), which was exactly the mood and tone that his stories needed. Lovecraft's words have the quality of making me think in a different way while reading them.

Exactly. I wish I'd been able to explain it so well. I know literature also, and Lovecraft's writing is actually pretty good, especially when read from the perspective kenjib points out.

Lovecraft fans will certainly want to read the work of Thomas Liggotti, whom I consider the modern successor to Lovecraft. Some of his work truly seems to have been written by a madman.

 

[Melan]

I use the Mythos and its entities rarely, but when they appear, it will always be a memorable and deadly encounter. I do not even put them in the way of PCs - the "non-Euclidean" places are always off the beaten path.

Thus far, the party has come into contact with the Mythos twice:
-at the first time, they were looking around some really old ruins with serpentine motifs and eery, green stones. They found a well hidden trapdoor under a layer of earth, and they proceeded to dig it up, hoping for treasure. What they found was a shaft down to a forgotten Serpent Man shrine dedicated to the god Yig. There was a huge statue of a coiled serpent with large gem eyes (and a crystal dagger before the statue), plus two serpent man statues blocking the path, with raised crystal swords. After a lot of detecting magic and arguing, a party member volunteered to procure the eyes and the dagger. Alas, two Prismatic Sprays from the crystal swords left him insane, petrified and burnt to a crisp!
Not deterred by this minor annoyance, the party toppled both statues and smashed their swords. Then, the Thief stepped forth to claim the prize, but he instantly fell under the hypnotic gaze of the large serpent statue and was possessed by the Intelligent Crystal dagger! His companions had to flee in haste to avoid being killed by him!
A successful evening, if I say so myself.

-the second time (a lot of time later), the party was exploring an abandoned quarry and just happened on a ritual to summon the elder god Cthon (think of a larger than average Cthonian). This time, they were wise enough to leave the assembled spectres and wraiths be and beat a hasty retreat, except for the gnome illusionist/tech smith (who sent in his mechanical servant to see what happens) and the curious-stupid orc barbarian. The mechanical servant fell into a deep, bottomless pit, and the gnome fled as well. As for the barbarian, he stood cluelessly. When Cthon emerged in his full glory, he instantly went insane from the Cosmic Terror and with a shriek, disappeared among the writhing tentacles of the God-Beast!
The rest of the party was safe, although they lost a pack mule laden with riches and loot.

 

[S'mon]

From what I recall from 18 years ago as a schoolboy in Belfast, in the early '80s Sandy Petersen's Call of Cthulu RPG was one of the two most popular RPGs around - it was the one everyone played if they weren't playing AD&D. It was a brilliantly written piece of work, and the 'anti-AD&D' - GMs loved running it, it gave them all the power. For twelve-year-old schoolboys, the nihilism and hopelessness didn't bother us - it gave us a chance to run around in a semi-modern setting toting Tommy-guns and sawn-off 12 gauge shotguns (4d6 damage, when the average human, PC or NPC, was killed by 12...).

Ah, memories...

It was also very well supported by White Dwarf, along with AD&D, Runequest & Traveller.

I think for some reason Call of Cthulu has always attracted a higher standard of game writing than normal in the industry - both Sandy Petersen's version and the current d20 version by Monte Cook et al stand out from the crowd in terms of quality. That's probably something to do with the weird attraction of the subject matter.

 

[seasong]

I'm surprised to hear this gamers-only thing about HPL; I always assumed that he had a big following among horror fans in general. Practically every horror book I've ever read, and several of the films I've seen, owe something to Lovecraft.

As in many fields, there are books that are popular, and there are books that are popular with writers. The latter influence the former (often verys trongly), but are rarely well known or liked outside of the circles they influence.

HPL wrote some stuff that was really, really creative, but he didn't write it for a less erudite audience, just mostly for his writer buddies. The result? Tons of ideas to steal for other writers (and GMs), but not a lot of popular pull.

 

[Turgenev]

I forgot the other reason gamers like Call of Cthulhu:

Fragile PCs + Uberpowerful Baddies = GM power trip...

Might be one of the subconcious aversions to the D&D that makes CoC Keepers bag it...the game hands a lot of control back to players.

You forgot the smiley. Oh, you were being serious. *shakes head in disbelief* I've played and GM CoC (BRP version) off and on since 1984 or so. Some of my most fulfilling RPG experiences have been from this game. To see statements like that above just rubs me the wrong way.

Call of Cthulhu is a different gaming experience than D&D (I'm not knocking D&D - I enjoy it also). CoC is a game of atmosphere. Set the right mood and watch the characters (and players) jump at the slightest bump in the night, or creaking door. Sure the characters are not as powerful as say their D&D counterparts but that is part of the charm of the game. For one thing, when you do succeed at something (i.e. defeating a monster, surviving a session, unraveling the secret of an ancient manuscript) you feel a greater sense of accomplishment since the odds were stacked against you. You don't have any magical weapons (with a few exceptions but even then they had severe prices to pay for their use, i.e. CoC spells) to fall back on to aid you, most of the time you have to rely on your own ingenuity and luck to see you through a session. Besides, any good CoC Keeper knows not to kill the characters too quickly.

Another aspect of CoC that I've always enjoyed was the fact that most adventures tended to revolve around a mystery or two. It isn't enough to just confront the bag guys with guns blazing. You have to research the situation and talk to the locals, dig into the library's records and/or the newspaper morgue for clues. You have to find out 'why' the situation is happening and then that would often give you a clue on 'how' to stop it.

Sure some sessions did end with violence with casualties on both sides, but that didn't matter. If a character died or went insane - no big deal you make another. Often how a character exited a game could become the highlights of a session. To this day, I still remember some of the more colourful sessions from 15+ years ago. I can mention certain NPC names to my old CoC buddies and they remember who I'm talking about instantly and how certain PCs bit the dust in that scenario (damn that Carl Stanford! ).

CoC is a fantastic game. To generalize those who GM it as being on a 'power trip' is just rubbish. I'm sure there are some GMs like that, but we can say the same for our favourite game here, can't we? As with any RPG, the quality of the session is dependent on the skill of the GM/DM. Just because some CoC GM (players) are a**es is no excuse for you to act the same.

Tim

 

[Turgenev]

HPL wrote some stuff that was really, really creative, but he didn't write it for a less erudite audience, just mostly for his writer buddies. The result? Tons of ideas to steal for other writers (and GMs), but not a lot of popular pull.

Couldn't you make the argument that since most of his "Mythos" stories were written for the Pulps, they were intended for the general populace? Course what you described sounds more like the letters that he wrote (over 100,000 of them during his lifetime).

Here is a useful link about Lovecraft's varied writings:

http://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/

Cheers,
Tim
another H.P. Lovecraft fan who happens to also be a gamer

 

[rounser]

Turgenev, I think you misunderstand the angle I'm plying. It wasn't meant as a dig at CoC or it's players....more calling a spade a spade.

D&D is a player power trip on one level, if you want to be brutally honest - get the gold, get the magic items, get the kewl powerz, level up, go to the Abyss, hand Orcus's arse to him and then take his Wand home to use as a souvenir backscratcher.

No skin off CoC's nose if, on a certain level of thinking, it's a GM power trip to have such a power imbalance in the destiny of the investigators that the mere sight of many of the creatures will drive them insane.

You can't tell me that Keepers don't occasionally gloat over how powerful something like Azathoth is, or take a small amount of delight in how bullets are nigh useless against mythos creatures. I've seen them do it, even gawked in disbelief at some of the stats myself - it's not a bug, it's a feature.

DMs love big bads as well, that's why the Archdevils and Demon Lords are so popular, and why books of god stats sell for no practical reason...

 

[Turgenev]

Turgenev, I think you misunderstand the angle I'm plying. D&D is a player power trip on one level, if you want to be brutally honest - get the gold, get the magic items, get the kewl powerz, level up, go to the Abyss, hand Orcus's arse to him and then take his Wand home to use as a souvenir backscratcher.

No skin off CoC's nose if it's a GM power trip to have such a power imbalance in the destiny of the investigators that the mere sight of many of the creatures will drive them insane.

You can't tell me that Keepers don't occasionally gloat over how powerful something like Azathoth is, or take a small amount of delight in how bullets are nigh useless against mythos creatures. I've seen them do it, even gawked in disbelief at some of the stats myself - it's not a bug, it's a feature.

DMs love big bads as well, that's why the Archdevils and Demon Lords are so popular, and why books of god stats sell...

Okay, I see where you are coming from now. I guess I just have a problem with the the phrase ''power trip' - it has such negative connotations to me that I didn't catch the way you were using it. Just blame my touchiness on my bronchitus.

As for your original question (way back at the start of this thread)... as much fun I've had playing CoC, I've never added the "Mythos" to my D&D games. That is pretty funny considering that I've added the Mythos to almost every other rpg that I have played (from Superheroes* to Pulp), just not D&D. Go figure.

Cheers,
Tim
* I've even posted stats for some of the Mythos creatures for the V&V superhero game (see url below)