The darkness of magic...

[Bob Aberton]

Yeah. I've always had problems with alignment in my game. So, I removed it. Along with the "detect..." spells dealing with alignment. Plus, I don't think death is vil I think it's neutral. Death doesn't care who you are, it gets everyone in the end...

 

[Nish]

Plus, I don't think death is vil I think it's neutral. Death doesn't care who you are, it gets everyone in the end...

Exactly. For awhile now I've felt it odd that most of the standard gods of death like Nerull are evil and also associated with undead. I mean think about: Death and Undeath. Sounds to me like these should be diametrically opposed concepts.

Death is not evil. Death is no more evil than birth; all that begins must also end. It is simply the way things work. Therefore, I have a hard time believing magic that directly and efficiently causes someone die is inherently evil. Again, it can be used for evil, but this is no different than a sword, which I think we can all agree is an inert lump of steel.

Animating the dead may be another matter. However, most non-intelligent undead are neutral, which in my opinion makes them very similar to a golem or other construct, except for the fact that the materials used are questionable. Making mindless skeletons can certainly be construed as disrespectful and unlawful in many situations, but I still don't think it is automatically evil. Creating something like a vampire, which is always evil and will result in the death of innocents, is an evil act in my opinion.

Although, my opinions on this subject might be worth much here, because I hate objective morality. I've also been pining to play our evil campaign again, becaus those characters are much less "tactically castrated".

 

[I'm A Banana]

I'm with the dude above....in D&D, [evil] and [good] and [law] and [chaos] (the spell descriptors) are tangible forces.

Calling a spell [evil] just means that it's run, governed, powered, and watched over by the evil energy in the world. It taps the very power of evil to do it's work.

It's up to the DM to make evil spells seem harmful and destructive. Giving somebody a negative level may not be directly evil, but watching "their skin drawn tightly over their bones, moaning in agony as claws of blackness race under their skin and tear at their very soul" may be a bit more wicked.

They're just tangible forces.

Of course, the rules don't say it affects alignment, right? They just give that definition to spells, but the spells don't determine what kind of alignment you can be, or if it starts to sway you. That's why alignments are so loose now. You can wound somebody's soul with the power of evil, and still not be evil yourself. That said, Pelor won't be giving it to you, and he won't let you summon fiendish hawks, either. Not because you can't use 'em potentially for good, but because they create a bit of a gateway, of sorts, a path that evil can walk again. Keeping those spells from being cast is much more important in the long run than any benefit they may yield (which may, in the end, be perverted to evil anyway).

 

[Nish]

It's up to the DM to make evil spells seem harmful and destructive. Giving somebody a negative level may not be directly evil, but watching "their skin drawn tightly over their bones, moaning in agony as claws of blackness race under their skin and tear at their very soul" may be a bit more wicked.

Yes, but how is that different than hitting someone with a fireball? "As your bead impacts his chest, he is briefly eclipsed by a violent expansion of fire. You can feel the heat even from where you stand. As the flames vanish, he lets out a tortured cry and collapses to the ground. What is left of his flesh is charred and blackened and runs like hot wax. You see much of it sticking to the ground as he writhes in agony."

If you wanted you could give a horrific and painful description to Cure Light Wounds to make it appear evil as well. I'm not sure what use any of this really is. As far as I'm concerned you're just making a false dichotomy. In my opinion, if you consider one form of violence evil, then it all is, regardless if you use fire, steel, or negative energy.

 

[Marion Poliquin]

Let's face it DnD wizard and mage are almost always tooled-up to be killing machine: a mage who spends his life learning spells to kill people or monsters doesn't seem to me as sane or good.

Would you say that a martial artist who spends his life mastering his ability to end a fight as quickly as possible is neither sane nor good ?

The good evoker may very well be dedicated to master violent magic in order to be able to use as little as possible.

 

[Nightfall]

Actually, in addressing this concern about a NEUTRAL deity of Death, I suggest you look at Nemorga in Hollowfaust. He's DEFINATELY the archtype of what Death is about, just, fair and unwavering.

 

[hong]

Yes I know another alignement post...
The PhB class some spells as Good or Evil. Is it me or is there some serious problem behind this:
Ok so vampiric touch is evil, I can understand, after all it can make sense that draining the life of your adversary to heal yourself isn't a selfless act...

Replace "good" and "evil" as alignment descriptors with "light" and "dark" (or any other two opposites), and most of these questions go away.