D&D 5E The Decrease in Desire for Magic in D&D

Vaalingrade

Legend
Alchemical powders made from...?

Alchemy being magic is a piece of weird cruft from the 3.5 update that needs the loving care of a captive bolt pistol.
 

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Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
Alchemical powders made from...?
Normal substances then when mixed in the proper amounts and stirred counterclockwise exactly 3.75 times, combine to make a magical potion of healing!
Alchemy being magic is a piece of weird cruft from the 3.5 update that needs the loving care of a captive bolt pistol.
From 2e PHB page 80: "Thus a wizard must check to see if he learns each new spell (according to his Intelligence-see Table 4). Furthermore, there is a limit to just how much of this strangeness-illogical mathematics, alchemical chemistry, structuralist linguistics-a wizards mind can comprehend" - Look! Alchemical Chemistry can cast spells...................which are magic!!

From 2e DMG page 84 using the practical method of magic item creation: "The practical method says that magical item manufacture is somehow lied to common sense; the materials needed to make the item reflect the properties of the item being constructed and the steps required are fairly well-defined. For example, a potion of climbing might require the hair of a climbing creature such as a giant spider or the legs of a giant insect." - or in other words, non-magical things that make sense to become magical when mixed. Which alchemy accomplishes.

From the 2e DMG page 85: "Wizards must do more than acquire ingredients: They must also need a complete alchemical laboratory. Potions are not something you can brew up over the kitchen stove." - Alchemy!

1e DMG page 116 under Manufacture of Potions: "Potions may be made by any magic-user of 7th level or above, if he or she enlists the aid of an alchemist." The wizard also needs the alchemical lab that 2e mentions.

So it was not 3.5 that brought alchemy into the magical fold. It was Gygax and 1e.
 

Vaalingrade

Legend
Gygax in 1 saying the magic user needs to hire an alchemist without ever saying the alchemist was a magic user, and then 2e saying the wizard needs an achemical lab in the same way they need robes.

Just because a wizard has to use something doesn't make that thing magic.

And I'm not sure even what 'somehow lied to common sense' is supposed to mean. Those words in that order are not lied to common sense.
 



Vaalingrade

Legend
Probably 'somehow linked to common sense'

Edit. Nope.
Just looked it up in the revised 2e DMG and it is 'somehow tied to common sense'
Considering how D&D sometimes talks like it's drunk while on a date to a Ren Faire with an English Professor they're trying to impress, I just assumed 'lied' had some archaic meaning, honestly.
 

ECMO3

Hero
Alchemical powders made from...?

Alchemy being magic is a piece of weird cruft from the 3.5 update that needs the loving care of a captive bolt pistol.
Historically "alchemy" was the attempt to make gold out of more common metals and elements. I would suggest that would be magic .... although historically they never got it to work.
 

DND_Reborn

The High Aldwin
Historically "alchemy" was the attempt to make gold out of more common metals and elements. I would suggest that would be magic .... although historically they never got it to work.
That was a very small part of alchemy in history, which predates such "uses" by well over a thousand years.
 

Thomas Shey

Legend
You could always play the game as it was originally intended and that was with three levels. The only reason they added more levels was because of AD&D.
Most young people today don't realize that D&D in it's current form is still the Advanced version which is why there is bell curve to comprehend and retain the rules and mechanics to some extent.

Anyway it's probably too late to do these kinds of restrictions, since video games enable you to play godlike characters and real gods.

OD&D had considerably more than three levels. I think you're making the mistake of assuming Basic D&D was the original.
 

Thomas Shey

Legend
All I can say is, my three favorite systems--4e, 13A, and Dungeon World--didn't need this. It's part of why they're my favorite systems.

Its pretty rare for me to agree with Lanefan about much, but I think I mostly do on this one. But I'm not going to deny your statement--but I will note that they didn't need this for you. There are usually a very small number of things some people don't have an issue with in any game system that's been developed well at all, but that doesn't actually say all those aren't flaws.

There were absolutely things we felt a need to do to 4e when we ran it locally; not a huge number, but some. And I'll be surprised if I don't feel a need to when I get around to running 13A.
 

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