D&D 5E The Decrease in Desire for Magic in D&D

[Maxperson]

I imagine that the same DM that makes the PC stupid when polymorphed would then suddenly say the soldier's personality is intact an he's really lazy, so the T-rex goes to sleep or some other BS.

Why do you assume that the DM is either bad or adversarial?

 

[Vaalingrade]

Why do you assume that the DM is either bad or adversarial?

Because I see the reading of that polymorph rule as inherently bad or adversarial?

 

[Hussar]

If polymorph is meant to be used on enemies, then why is there a CR restriction for what you can turn someone into? I wouldn't turn an enemy into a T-Rex or Giant Ape!

Also, for the people who argue about being able to tell friend from foe, I'm curious- if I turn an Orc into a Giant Ape, is he going to immediately start turning on his allies if they're closest?

I'm suddenly imagining, with the shoe on the other foot, a lot of DM's suddenly saying "well the spell doesn't change the Orc's personality, so there's no reason it would attack it's allies".

Note, I didn't say, "Immediately". That's your interpretation. I said that it was a possibility, for example, maybe after the enemies of the PC have been dealt with (the character does retain personality) but, now you have a damaged, enraged animal with a bunch of humanoids with weapons standing around it after the ones that were poking it with sticks have fallen. Animals don't tend to "switch off" quite that quickly. So, maybe a saving throw or something.

But your point about Tenser's Transformation is well made. Tenser's Transformation is actually considerably weaker than polymorph and it's two levels higher to cast, only lasts for one fight, and does not grant any additional movement abilities. Seems a bit strong for Polymorph when you look at it like that.

And, the limit of a T-Rex isn't really much of a limit since it's something EVERY character that can cast Polymorph can do.

 

[Hussar]

Because I see the reading of that polymorph rule as inherently bad or adversarial?

Whereas I look at it as a spell that is horribly broken and ridiculously overpowered.

Again, why should a 5th level spell be MUCH more powerful than a 7th level spell? Granting more HP, better attacks, more damage, potentially speed bonuses and movement types for longer duration than Tenser's Transformation. And, I'll repeat again, I would NOT have the polymorphed creature suddenly radically change behavior. But, when faced with a situation where an animal would likely react differently than a PC, I don't have a problem insisting on some sort of saving throw to act against the nature of the animal.

Used as a debilitating spell, it's not really any different than a Banishment spell, really. Which is lower level, so, basically, it's a higher duration Banishment with a couple of extra benefits. No problems there. That's fine.

But, as a buffing spell, it's WAYYY too powerful.

Heck, something as simple as limiting size changes would fix everything. You can only go same size or smaller. Poof, instantly fixed.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Whereas I look at it as a spell that is horribly broken and ridiculously overpowered.

Again, why should a 5th level spell be MUCH more powerful than a 7th level spell? Granting more HP, better attacks, more damage, potentially speed bonuses and movement types for longer duration than Tenser's Transformation. And, I'll repeat again, I would NOT have the polymorphed creature suddenly radically change behavior. But, when faced with a situation where an animal would likely react differently than a PC, I don't have a problem insisting on some sort of saving throw to act against the nature of the animal.

Used as a debilitating spell, it's not really any different than a Banishment spell, really. Which is lower level, so, basically, it's a higher duration Banishment with a couple of extra benefits. No problems there. That's fine.

But, as a buffing spell, it's WAYYY too powerful.

Heck, something as simple as limiting size changes would fix everything. You can only go same size or smaller. Poof, instantly fixed.

Perhaps the problem is Tenser's Transformation is too weak.

 

[Zubatcarteira]

Polymorph is 4th level, even. Great value for the slot.

 

[Hussar]

Polymorph is 4th level, even. Great value for the slot.

Whoops. Thanks for the catch.

That does not make it better.

 

[James Gasik]

Whereas I look at it as a spell that is horribly broken and ridiculously overpowered.

Again, why should a 5th level spell be MUCH more powerful than a 7th level spell? Granting more HP, better attacks, more damage, potentially speed bonuses and movement types for longer duration than Tenser's Transformation. And, I'll repeat again, I would NOT have the polymorphed creature suddenly radically change behavior. But, when faced with a situation where an animal would likely react differently than a PC, I don't have a problem insisting on some sort of saving throw to act against the nature of the animal.

Used as a debilitating spell, it's not really any different than a Banishment spell, really. Which is lower level, so, basically, it's a higher duration Banishment with a couple of extra benefits. No problems there. That's fine.

But, as a buffing spell, it's WAYYY too powerful.

Heck, something as simple as limiting size changes would fix everything. You can only go same size or smaller. Poof, instantly fixed.

Oh I brought up Tenser's because it seemed in line with the proposed replacement to polymorph's effects that were proposed. As to whether or not Tensers is a good spell, well, you'd have to find someone who has ever used it in 5e, I suppose.

 

[SkidAce]

Another thing that strikes me as odd about this spell- why does polymorph use a Wisdom saving throw and not Constitution?

"Watch the swinging pendant....back and forth...you are a butterly....a butterfly!"

"I am a butterfly" POOF!

 

[SkidAce]

So while you will find magic items, weird zones caused by an ancient magic duel, etc. left around the world, people will often not recognize components, symbols, foci or the class itself. Anything that could be used as a weapon, which would include foci, would probably be taken on that ground, but a pouch with odd bits of stuff in it probably wouldn't.

As a former jailor...we take everything.