The details in the Devil

[Greenfield]

I'm looking at a very unbalanced fight coming up at some point, and I'm considering ways to change that.

We have a party of PCs approaching 20th level, who are planning a face off with a particular Chain Devil (Kyton) who holds contracts on parts of two of the PC's souls.

Any member of the party could drop kick this guy through the goal posts from 50 yards. He's a CR 6, and in a fight he couldn't hit their AC without a natural 20. The fighters couldn't miss his AC except on a 1.

Obviously, my poor little Kyton needs some advancement.

One of his powers is that he can control up to four chains within 20 feet of him, letting them grow in length and sprout razor sharp blades. They attack the same as thr Kyton himself. That effectively gives him six attacks a round, under the right circumstance.

I think I need to increase his hit dice and BAB, or he'll drop halfway through the first round. And obviously I can bump his as I choose, and give him whatever allies I care to, but I'm looking for something more.

I think I need to come up with some truly scary tactics, something unexpected to set the PCs back on their heels and make it a real fight.

One thought that came to mind was his control over chains. Would that include chain armor? If he could make someone's own armor sprout blades in all the wrong places, and then try to strangle them, would that be scary enough?

I think I'd treat blades inside armor as Armor Spikes in reverse. That is, they do a D6 + Strength per round, and treat the armor itself like a Grapple.

Then, of course, there's the idea of him grabbing bystanders with chains and using them as bludgeoning weapons. Makeshift weapons, to be sure, but again the idea is to make the PC's think on their feet, to break them out of their normal battle plans.

Now grabbing someone in their own armor is sneaky and nasty, but by the book a Will Save DC 15 breaks his control, so it's not going to be very effective unless I can bump that somehow. The rules don't say what that Save is based on, so it's unclear what would have to be bumped or adjusted to justify the change.

An obvious buff I can give him is his own Treasure. Monsters have treasure, and it's fully appropriate for him to use any magic items from his own treasure list.

Advancement on this 8 HD creature is listed as from 9 to 16 hit dice. After that he's not really a Kyton any more. At 16 HD he'd be a CR 12, which is still a hockey puck against even one of the PCs.

Now, by the book I can't really add class levels to him. Of course, as the DM I can do what I want, but I really am a rules guy, and I like to stay within the rules.

So what's left? Templates? Feats and skill abuses that can be added with levels?

I'm hoping for some feedbqack, and help making this particular Kyto the a serious "street legal" bad boy, one with enough beef to back his bluster, and give the PCs a decent fight.

Oh, by the way, they know that killing him isn't enough. They need to destroy him in such a way that his soul/spirit won't return to Hell and re-spawn as a Llarva (the lowest form of Devil). They need to steal or obliterate his life force, completely.

 

[LostSoul]

Now grabbing someone in their own armor is sneaky and nasty, but by the book a Will Save DC 15 breaks his control, so it's not going to be very effective unless I can bump that somehow. The rules don't say what that Save is based on, so it's unclear what would have to be bumped or adjusted to justify the change.

It's 10 + 1/2 HD + Cha mod (10 + 8/2 + 1). Increasing its HD will increase the save DCs.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

If you have Trailblazer, apply the solo template.

Look up Pathfinder's "advanced" template, the one that boosts all stats by +4. Apply repeatedly. (Pretty sure that's not allowed, but go ahead and do it.)

The top one is key. No matter how badass you make him, he cannot keep up with four or more PCs. Of course, being able to animate numerous chains without expending actions will help with the whole action economy thing. I like the idea of strangling PCs with their chainmail, but many PCs will wear other types of armor.

 

[Greenfield]

Well, as the thread label implies, we're playing D&D 3.5, not Pathfinder, so Pathfinder feats don't apply.

But if I advance him to 16 HD, the Save will go from a 15 to a 19. If I bump his Strength from 15 to 22 (+1 from advancement, +6 from an item), that will add another +4 to his attacks. Added to the levels will put him at +20 instead of +10. Add a weapon feat or two, and some enchantment to his weapons, and he'll actually be able to hit someone.

Adding Improved Trip will make a huge difference too.

Adding to his Charisma will also help with the Save. I'll add an Intelligence item as well, since by the book he's not really smart enough to have gotten himself into these deals to begin with. (INT of 6 doesn't cut it).

AC may be an issue, but Displacement will probably double his life span.

We'll see if we can make him worth fighting.

 

[Greenfield]

Okay, I've done a little research.

Since he's an Outsider, advancing him by Hit Dice is a two for 1 deal: Adding 8 more hit dice only advances his CR by 4, to a 10.

So far I've played him as much more charming (in an oily, sinister kind of way), and far more intelligent than a common Chain Devil.

He's been the smiling, calculating kind of evil, always ready to lend a hand, for a price. And always willing to leverage any advantage he has into a greater advantage. Kind of a supernatural loan shark.

So, with this image in mind, any suggestions for additional powers I might add? Any templates seem appropriate?

 

[Kinak]

So, with this image in mind, any suggestions for additional powers I might add? Any templates seem appropriate?

It sounds like he'd be perfect for those chains in the Book of Vile Darkness... the ones that transfer damage to the people wearing the attached collars... I'm blanking on the name. But being able to shunt damage (and possibly spell effects) to people figuratively or literally chained to him seems key.

I'm a big fan of making the battlefield itself out of chains to make his animation as devastating as possible. Like a chamber over a huge pit filled with hanging chains. The devil can move around easily by having the chains pass him around, but outsiders would find it less easy. Your PCs can fly, I'm sure, but it's a good visual and leaves a ton of chains around. As a bonus, have some damned souls in the chains (possibly related to the previous note).

I'd also consider chain golem allies... which I remember being a thing, but can't find at the moment. Reskinned advanced iron golems with spiked chains if nothing else.

I can't come up with any reason you couldn't give him a bunch of levels as well. Rogue seems fun if he's grappling people with chains and sneak attacking. It would explain some of his social skills too. Otherwise, just fighter for beefiness or cleric if you can tie him to some god.

Cheers!
Kinak

 

[Imperialus]

I think you could probabably go a long way to turning the tables by leveraging the fact that he owns two of the PC's souls. Charm person at will seems like a good place to start.

 

[Greenfield]

The battlefield will, like as not, be of the PC's choosing. One asked a source in Celestia for any weaknesses this particular Kyton had.

The Astral Deva (servant the Celtic god of Knowledge) reminded him of what he already knew: The Devil was bound, by contract, to appear at a particular inn on a particular night, to collect on a debt. Further, he was bound, by contract, to come when a particular PC called, to conduct more business.

They were advised to avoid fighting him in the seaside Inn in the port city, where the decor was likely to consist of ships wheels, anchor chains, and similar things.

But the Kyton carries chains as a matter of course. They're his weapons, his armor, his clothes, his everything.

Of course, he could stash a few in PC magical packs, where they won't notice the weight. He's expecting treachery, if only because it's what he would do: The terms of the contracts are fairly straight forward, and very strict, but fail to include anything to say that they can't kill him before the due date.

Killing him won't void any contracts, of course. But his failure to appear to collect at the appointed hour will negate at least one.

I like the Chain Golem, if only for color. They're a CR 5, found in MM II, and are an even smaller speed bump than the Devil himself.

We don't normally use the BoVD in our game, but as the DM I can fudge that rule.

Oh, I found that I miscalculated his combat abilities.

He's an 8 HD creature, with a BAB of +8, so adding another 8 dice will bump his BAB by the same amount. I'd previously calculated it at 12 when he's 16 dice, not the 16 he'll actually be.

His "Dancing Chains" ability currently has a Save DC of 15. Adding 8 dice will bump that by 4, to a 19. Giving him a Charisma boost to a 16, to reflect the way he's been played, will raise that to a 21. Not a huge challenge for most of the PCs, but it's at least possible to fail it.

I wonder how many of the PC's are wearing Amulets of Health or Amulets of Natural Armor. Those come on chains, don't they? <Evil grin>

I really have to look up the rules for the Garrote in 3.5 <larger evil grin>

As for the PCs who's souls he owns a share of: He doesn't hold a majority on either one (30% of one, 50% of another), and he doesn't have any Charm Person ability.

The (until recently) evil one, the one who owes 50% plus a service, has had an angel assigned to keep him on the right side of Good and Evil. Or at least away from the wrong side. (You can only expect so much, after all.) This happened just at the end of the previous DM's turn in the chair, and while the Deva has accompanied the group into battle, she hasn't actually joined in a fight as of yet. She might not. The scene was very short lived, and in fact combat proved unnecessary: A group of children had been taken from a village, and were being escorted across the Plane of Shadow to the Abyss. One Greater Scrying on one of the children, and a Gate spell later and we were pulling our own version of Scry and Fry. Except we placed the gate horizontally, at ground level, right under the kids. They dropped through, safe and home again, while the PCs poured through to collect any stragglers. They were in and out in two rounds, leaving the trafficer to face his "clients" with nothing to traffic.

Killing him would have been a mercy, and we weren't exactly in a merciful mood.

In any case, stories aside, if it's established that the Angel is a combatant in any way, it will change the entire scene. I guess I'll have to handle that when the time comes.

 

[Grogg of the North]

How strong is the devil's claim on the party member's souls? Is it a "Contract Pending" or can he do stuff with it?

My first thought is for him to bundle up his claims on the souls and sell them to another devil. (Kinda like a hellish mortgage company?) So, yes, he shows up when called but so does the other investor. And this other investor is much bigger and nastier.

A second option would be to use his claims on souls to shunt the damage back to the PCs. 50% goes to PC A, 30% to PC B and the devil takes 20%. I'd make it pretty nasty too, either vile damage or make it require a restoration before it can be healed. If the PCs die, part of their soul is destroyed too.

 

[Empirate]

I absolutely don't see how you cannot add class levels! Whyever wouldn't you do that? There are even PrCs that are specifically for fiends! Fiend Folio is a good place to start looking. Things to make the Kyton tougher apart from levels: feat selection, followers/hangers-on, equipment (including fiendish grafts!), templates.

As regards the latter: How about the Monster of Legend template? Now the Kyton can cast as a 5th level Cleric, so pick your divine PrC of choice. Hello, Divine Power, Righteous Might, True Seeing, even Miracle if you stretch it far enough.

One thing I love about fiends is fiendish possession. It's potentially extremely nasty, a bit like Magic Jar. Rules can be found in one of the Fiendish Codexes.