The details in the Devil

[Greenfield]

The arrangement is more than a simple truce. It's an actual alliance, Law v Chaos, and it's been acknowledged by no less than Apollo himself.

The party took shots at the Imp assigned to them, the first time they met, but he didn't hold a grudge. DR 5/Silver v a D8 arrow/ backed up by a Fast Heal makes those kinds of things easy to forgive.

And while his role has been largely informational (warning them of danger, or when they're about to do something stupid), he has at least attempted to play distraction for them when they were being attacked.

He even offered them information on the Chain Devil (who he sees as something of a professional rival). All he wanted in return was that they dedicate the kill to him, so he could have first claim on the Llarva he would become when he went down to hell again.

On general principle, they refused, but his offer was in good faith. He's actually been an ally, whether they want to admit it or not.

As for the Chain Devil, he could make quite a case for himself if this landed in a Celestial court.

Point 1: He never offered anything in exchange for shares of souls. The deals were always porposed by the PCs.

Point 2: He withheld nothing when it came to terms of the deal. No fine print, no twists of wording, not even a shred of deception. (It would have fouled the contract.)

Point 3: It was a PC who proposed the arrangement when he would come to their aid when called, but specifically so more soul shares could be traded.

Point 4: He included in the contract a way for them to buy it off. Several ways in fact. One was the completion of a service for him.

Which brings us to...

Point 5: The PC accepted the Service deal, knowing the full terms in advance. No coercion was applied, the PC was under no immediate threat or danger. The time allowed for completion was generous, a full year. He could have said no, and waited for a better or easier service offer. (The contract allowed for up to three such offers.)

and...

Point 6: The PCs are in trouble with the church and the Empire not because of any requirements of the Service, but because of how they chose to fulfill it. He expected a simple case of adventurers exploring old ruins seeking treasure. You know, the kind of thing adventurers do all the time. It was the PCs who decided to violate the Law of Time in order to travel to the past (pissing off a deity as they went), who attempted to change that past event (pissing off that same god even more), raiding an active temple right as the people were praying to their god for salvation, killing several Temple guardians and stealing the altar piece right in the middle of services.

So they can't blame him for the sheep dip they're in right now, that was entirely their own doing. Even the fact that the Church of Zues found out was their doing: One of their own number dropped a dime on them.

So their goal of killing him to deprive him of his due is murder, pure and simple, and violates Law as well. Is murder still Evil when the person you're planning to kill is Evil?

(By the way, I didn't plan or arrange any of that, it's just the way things played out. Crazy, eh? )

 

[N'raac]

Seems to me that victimizing an Evil, but innocent, target doesn't make it Good!

 

[Greenfield]

Oh I agree. This was literally a case of me playing Devil's Advocate.

But it does raise a question for "Good" characters: Is it okay to kill someone, just because of their race or alignment?

The Devil isn't attacking anyone, isn't endangering innocents, isn't any kind of immediate threat to anyone. Is what the PCs are doing, plotting to lure him into a trap so they can kill him, a form of murder?

Is killing to free a soul (from a bargain they entered into freely) that much different from killing to steal a neat magic item?

In game the "I own a piece of your soul" thing simply means that if the PC dies, they can't come back. And since we've taken Raise Dead, Resurrection and True Resurrection out of our campaign, coming back isn't always an option anyway. To bring someone back, there's Revivification if you're quick enough, and then there's "Take a trip to the Land of the Dead, sneak past Cerebrus or the Fenris Wolf, or Apophis, find their soul and return to the land of the living with it". )

So, in the meta sense, it's almost a non-penalty.

But I do have to admit, it makes great story!

 

[Savage Wombat]

If the PCs are trying to break a legal contract through murder - shouldn't the Inevitables get involved?

 

[Abraxus]

If you are married to the idea of straight combat...

Could he animate a swarm of fast moving, dextrous, fine sized chains, and use them to crawl into the PC's nostrils and mouths? It would be interesting because its a very different application for controlling chains than what they will expect, and the spot check to notice fine sized chains crawling on the floor or up your trouser legs would be really high.

You could buff him as a Telekineticist or Transmuter or something in order to best extend and develop his control of chains. Maybe you could play him more like a Worm That Walks, or a Swarm Shifter Vampire but using fine-sized chains

 

[Greenfield]

If you are married to the idea of straight combat...

Could he animate a swarm of fast moving, dextrous, fine sized chains, and use them to crawl into the PC's nostrils and mouths? It would be interesting because its a very different application for controlling chains than what they will expect, and the spot check to notice fine sized chains crawling on the floor or up your trouser legs would be really high.

You could buff him as a Telekineticist or Transmuter or something in order to best extend and develop his control of chains. Maybe you could play him more like a Worm That Walks, or a Swarm Shifter Vampire but using fine-sized chains

Well, I'm not "married to the idea", but as I said before, the decision isn't mine.

One of the PCs has a contract with him that includes a clause stating that he may be called by that PC to enact further business. They plan to use that to call him into a trap, where they'll jump him and try to destroy him totally.

That's their plan, not mine, so whether I like it or not, straight combat is what's going to happen.

As for the fine chains idea: He can control up to 4 chains within 20 feet. I might be able to extend that by advancing him, but swarms of chains won't be within reach. Besides, there is no standard weapon damage listed for such an attack, and attacks that look totally made up, well, they look totally made up. You know, bogus.

Currently on his abuse list are huge chains, such as an anchor chain, taking control of a PC's chain shirt or suit, and taking control of the chain that magic amulets hang from.

He can't depend on there being any allies or convenient weapons to take advantage of on scene. In fact, I suspect that the PCs are going to try and strip their chosen battle field of anything resembling a chain.

 

[Grogg of the North]

I really like what [MENTION=1932]Savage Wombat[/MENTION] recommended. Have inevitables show up. Maybe one for each person at the meeting. A kolyarut may not be tough as is, but add on some hit dice and go up a size category. Heck, if all of them blast with their enervation ray, I'm sure you'll have some PCs go poof.

 

[N'raac]

"Kytons are humanlike devils, wrapped in chains instead of clothing. A chain devil is 6 feet tall and weighs about 300 pounds, chains included."

Looks like he doesn't leave home without the chains, so he will have whatever you consider him to carry as "standard equipment".

How does he get there? Why can't he use the same means to leave? Perhaps he can Scry the location around his contract (he must be able to figure out how to get there somehow, mustn't he?) and know a trap is brewing.

hmmm...they have a contract where they can summon the Devil at will...could the Devil have some contracts where he can Summon the other party at will? Maybe he even gives the PC credit for the idea!

How about advancing through the Improved Grapple series? Grappling with 15+' razor barbed chains seems pretty painful, and might at least slow the team down - especially if he concentrates four chains (more if you advance him in that regard) on a softer target to "negotiate".

Let's say they win - wouldn't such an LE creature have a will in place - maybe his destruction transfers the contracts to someone a little less easy for the PC's to get along with? LE - the laws work for me - maybe an intestate Devil's property and contracts revert to an Arch-Devil - congrats - now your contract is held by Asmodeus!

 

[Greenfield]

Several possibilities for the encounter.

How will he arrive? So far he's made his presence known mentally. That "Telepathy 100 foot range" ability is nice.

In emergencies he's spoken to them and negotiated "in that moment between the heartbeats", a sort of brief out-of-body experience for them.

When he's been physically present, he's used Greater Teleport to arrive close by, so he can observe the scene, then walked in normally. He usually leaves the same way.

And, to be a stickler on the letter of the law, the contract that allows them to call him applies only when they want to bargain for favors or help. He need not appear if that isn't their intent.

And of course he expects treachery. He wasn't spawned yesterday, and it's exactly the kind of thing he'd do himself.

So I have any number of ways/excuses to prevent the event from taking place. But at some point it's going to.

If I can delay that moment until zero hour, at the designated time and location for the Dagger to be delivered (i.e. completion of the bargain), I have a number of nasty ways to mess with the party.

Maybe I'll share them on some other occasion.

 

[N'raac]

Several possibilities for the encounter.

How will he arrive? So far he's made his presence known mentally. That "Telepathy 100 foot range" ability is nice.

In emergencies he's spoken to them and negotiated "in that moment between the heartbeats", a sort of brief out-of-body experience for them.

When he's been physically present, he's used Greater Teleport to arrive close by, so he can observe the scene, then walked in normally. He usually leaves the same way.

Seems odd that they expect he'll walk into their trap, doesn't it?

And, to be a stickler on the letter of the law, the contract that allows them to call him applies only when they want to bargain for favors or help. He need not appear if that isn't their intent.

And of course he expects treachery. He wasn't spawned yesterday, and it's exactly the kind of thing he'd do himself.

So I have any number of ways/excuses to prevent the event from taking place. But at some point it's going to.

If I can delay that moment until zero hour, at the designated time and location for the Dagger to be delivered (i.e. completion of the bargain), I have a number of nasty ways to mess with the party.

What if he used telepathy or that "moment out of time" trick to not only stall their attack, but offer a service, pushing them closer to the endgame? Seems like him playing dumb, meeting the arty on his terms but not noting any awareness of their plans until the zero hour arrives could make the party frustrated, and maybe careless as the clock ticks down...