doghead
thotd
I think that this is genius. A claim on the souls of 20th level characters must be worth something to the wrong sort of people.
thotd
The details in the Devil
- Thread starter Greenfield
- Start date
I think that this is genius. A claim on the souls of 20th level characters must be worth something to the wrong sort of people.
thotd
To take this sideways, why must he be a combat threat? His strength seems to be in manipulation and machination, not pure combat damage output, so why would he fight on a field where he lacks his usual advantages?
Resolving a longstanding challenge through a means other than violence is pretty foreign to us as gamers, I know, but is there no way for the PC's to engage, and defeat, the Devil in his area of strength, rather than beefing him up to challenge the PC's in their area of strength, and becoming just one more challenge killed by the superior physical prowess of the PCs? What would be more memorable?
Resolving a longstanding challenge through a means other than violence is pretty foreign to us as gamers, I know, but is there no way for the PC's to engage, and defeat, the Devil in his area of strength, rather than beefing him up to challenge the PC's in their area of strength, and becoming just one more challenge killed by the superior physical prowess of the PCs? What would be more memorable?
RUMBLETiGER
Adventurer
Since this character is capable of holding control over individuals much stronger than himself, perhaps there's a stronger Devil or another creature indebted to him, and he'd call in a favor for this battle?
Lwaxy
Cute but dangerous
Certain chain devils of the intelligent, shady kind have people owing them favors. Some people may have even agreed to come at the devil's bidding without knowing, because not everyone reads the small print. So he wouldn't show up alone. I'm sure he knows people who can match the PCS.
Particularly nasty if two of those joining the kyton are the PCs in hock.
Bob, what are you doing? We're doing this to free you!
I know, but I can't stop! Now stop talking and defend yourself!
Greenfield
Adventurer
Okay, to answer a few questions:
There was no "fine print". The contracts were verbal, and sealed with a handshake, which seared his mark into their flesh. The scar can't be removed.
For someone who owes part of their soul to him, they spend one day in ten in his service, through all of eternity, for every 10% they owe. But that's only after death. In practice, it means that if they die there is no way to bring them back, since he'd have to let them take the portion he owes.
Why is it to be a combat encounter? Because the PCs are planning to attack him. That's not a condition I get to change. They want to kill him.
They understand that he'll return to Hell as a Llarva, the lowest form of Devil. From there, if he isn't eaten by one of the big guys, he'll slowly have to work his way up again. But any contracts he holds stay with him, and he can trade them to accelerate that process.
For that reason they're looking for a way to not just kill him, but to utterly destroy him, body and soul. That's a lot harder.
As for binding the PCs to him, he has no way to force it, but he has leverage. One owes him a service. He will make three offers, which the PC can refuse. If he refuses them all, then his debt goes from 50% to 100%. That one's already been offered one such service, and refused. If the Devil offers a second one, and has it refused, then he can make the third at the start of the battle. If the PC refuses, the Devil owns him completely.
The other PC is in the process of completing a service. But he's decided to fall on his sword, so to speak, by disposing of the prize so the service can't be completed. He will own that PC completely when he fails to pay.
Problem: They're planning the Devil's demise before zero hour, so he won't get to play that card.
As for class levels: I could see adding Monster dice. I could see adding class levels. Mixing both just comes off strange. It's not that I can't, I just don't think it will work well, and I can't add enough to make a difference in this fight. Push him to CR 20 with straight levels and he'll be 60% of one of the PCs, and he'll still get smeared, and fast. So I need to try something else.
I like the Monster of Legend idea. I'll have to look into that one.
There was no "fine print". The contracts were verbal, and sealed with a handshake, which seared his mark into their flesh. The scar can't be removed.
For someone who owes part of their soul to him, they spend one day in ten in his service, through all of eternity, for every 10% they owe. But that's only after death. In practice, it means that if they die there is no way to bring them back, since he'd have to let them take the portion he owes.
Why is it to be a combat encounter? Because the PCs are planning to attack him. That's not a condition I get to change. They want to kill him.
They understand that he'll return to Hell as a Llarva, the lowest form of Devil. From there, if he isn't eaten by one of the big guys, he'll slowly have to work his way up again. But any contracts he holds stay with him, and he can trade them to accelerate that process.
For that reason they're looking for a way to not just kill him, but to utterly destroy him, body and soul. That's a lot harder.
As for binding the PCs to him, he has no way to force it, but he has leverage. One owes him a service. He will make three offers, which the PC can refuse. If he refuses them all, then his debt goes from 50% to 100%. That one's already been offered one such service, and refused. If the Devil offers a second one, and has it refused, then he can make the third at the start of the battle. If the PC refuses, the Devil owns him completely.
The other PC is in the process of completing a service. But he's decided to fall on his sword, so to speak, by disposing of the prize so the service can't be completed. He will own that PC completely when he fails to pay.
Problem: They're planning the Devil's demise before zero hour, so he won't get to play that card.
As for class levels: I could see adding Monster dice. I could see adding class levels. Mixing both just comes off strange. It's not that I can't, I just don't think it will work well, and I can't add enough to make a difference in this fight. Push him to CR 20 with straight levels and he'll be 60% of one of the PCs, and he'll still get smeared, and fast. So I need to try something else.
I like the Monster of Legend idea. I'll have to look into that one.
An escape route is all he needs to address that. He would be one of the few lacking Greater Teleport, wouldn't he? Mind you, given how many more powerful Devils do have it, why cant he gain it if you upgrade him?
Of course, this assumes that forcing a non-combat resolution won't be a social contract/group expectations issue.
Do they have a way? Perhaps any means they can find requires accomplishing a non-combat success, not a ritual, spell or special weapon.
Again, tough, a lot depends on the social contract - if their hearts are set on a blowout battle, what can you do?
Greenfield
Adventurer
Yes he has Greater Teleport. That, in a way, limits him, in that he can't use that to travel if he's dragging along slaves, Chain Golems, etc.
The party is trying to figure out how to pin him down once he arrives. Spells that prevent his departure also prevent his arrival, so whatever it is, they need to do it before he can react.
I'd laugh f they tried Dimensional Shackles. Trying to bind a Chain Devil with chains?
As for the "utter destruction" thing: One consulted a Cleric of Anubis, regarding what truly happens after death.
From that, and other sources, they were informed about Void Stones, weapons with a Life Stealing property, a Solar's Arrows of Slay Anything, things like that.
All of which grant a Saving throw or some form of resistance. They want a 100% guarantee, and they really don't have one.
One small problem that they're overlooking: There's a tacit "enemy of my enemy" kind of alliance between Hell and the Heavenly forces of Law. The party has enjoyed a few benefits of that truce/alliance, and what they're planning may end it.
You see, the first time they met this Devil, he had come to inquire about the status of a new PC, and whether he was covered by it or not. And while he does have a "Stop and kill the roses" kind of approach to life, it was a party member who first proposed a deal. In point of fact, every deal has been offered by a PC. He never initiated a single one.
Admitted, he did take advantage when advantage was presented, but if they want to complain about him tempting innocents, he can make an equal claim that the party tempted him by offering shares of their souls to him. How can they blame him for yielding to temptation? They're the ones who presented it.
Yeah, this scene is that kind of screwed up, which is at least half of what makes it so much fun.
The party is trying to figure out how to pin him down once he arrives. Spells that prevent his departure also prevent his arrival, so whatever it is, they need to do it before he can react.
I'd laugh f they tried Dimensional Shackles. Trying to bind a Chain Devil with chains?
As for the "utter destruction" thing: One consulted a Cleric of Anubis, regarding what truly happens after death.
From that, and other sources, they were informed about Void Stones, weapons with a Life Stealing property, a Solar's Arrows of Slay Anything, things like that.
All of which grant a Saving throw or some form of resistance. They want a 100% guarantee, and they really don't have one.
One small problem that they're overlooking: There's a tacit "enemy of my enemy" kind of alliance between Hell and the Heavenly forces of Law. The party has enjoyed a few benefits of that truce/alliance, and what they're planning may end it.
You see, the first time they met this Devil, he had come to inquire about the status of a new PC, and whether he was covered by it or not. And while he does have a "Stop and kill the roses" kind of approach to life, it was a party member who first proposed a deal. In point of fact, every deal has been offered by a PC. He never initiated a single one.
Admitted, he did take advantage when advantage was presented, but if they want to complain about him tempting innocents, he can make an equal claim that the party tempted him by offering shares of their souls to him. How can they blame him for yielding to temptation? They're the ones who presented it.
Yeah, this scene is that kind of screwed up, which is at least half of what makes it so much fun.
Grogg of the North
Adventurer
For some reason, all I can think of when I consider a non-combat resolution is this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZwgLt0QadU
@Greenfield I assume that your world doesn't have a Fairness in Hell Act of 2275?
Last edited:
I thought he didn't from a quick stat search, but he's an advanced one ad it seems a logical add. Does he care about the slaves, golems, etc.? Maybe he really IS unbeatable in combat (either too powerful or too hard to pin down) but making oneself enough of a pest consumes more resources than your souls are worth so fine - have them back. "And may ye be cursed in the taking, ye foul breaker of oaths and contracts, ye spawns of chaos and disorder."
ASIDE: as he gains power, does he gain power over more metaphorical chains? Can he attack the PC's with their own Dimensional Shackles and Binding Spells, in addition to being difficult/impossible to bind? **chuckles gleefully**
Where's the fun of a 100% guarantee?
One small problem that they're overlooking: There's a tacit "enemy of my enemy" kind of alliance between Hell and the Heavenly forces of Law. The party has enjoyed a few benefits of that truce/alliance, and what they're planning may end it.
You see, the first time they met this Devil, he had come to inquire about the status of a new PC, and whether he was covered by it or not. And while he does have a "Stop and kill the roses" kind of approach to life, it was a party member who first proposed a deal. In point of fact, every deal has been offered by a PC. He never initiated a single one.
Admitted, he did take advantage when advantage was presented, but if they want to complain about him tempting innocents, he can make an equal claim that the party tempted him by offering shares of their souls to him. How can they blame him for yielding to temptation? They're the ones who presented it.
Yeah, this scene is that kind of screwed up, which is at least half of what makes it so much fun.
What happens if he calls on that tacit truce? Could he be owed a debt by a Solar, rather than a Pit Fiend? ***shudder***
Similar Threads
