The Devil's in the Details: Slavicsek reveals the Pit Fiend in all its glory

[Khaim]

The only part I don't understand right now, and maybe this will be clarified by a future preview or in the Monster Manual, is what I do if I want the party to face off against a single pit fiend in the traditional "you've defeated my minions and now you must deal with me" sense.

Make them do it at level 24 instead of 26. I'm not sure exactly how well a single higher-level monster translates into the normal set of equal-level monsters, but I'm sure you could do it. Heck, if you throw it at them at level 23 then the summons are an encounter unto themselves!

 

[Upper_Krust]

Howdy FireLance!

I'd also prefer it if it was something like the 3e immediate action (maybe it will be called a "reaction" in 4e?) that could be used whenever a lower-level allied devil is dropped to below 0 hp. That makes it more like the pit fiend is giving its minions a last gasp attack.

Thats a terrible idea because it takes away the tactical element of using Irresistible Command. Specifically when and where to use it.

This new Pit Fiend has some interesting decisions with Tactical Teleport and Irresistible Command. However I do think it is at least one or two options short of what I was hoping for. It looks interesting for an encounter, but perhaps not multiple encounters. That said it is only supposed to be 2/5ths of an encounter.

I am also one of those people bewildered by its pretty feeble attack capabilities. While many people have commented that hit points may be lower in 4E (debateable and excluding the fact that healing seems far more prevailant), and also that its a Leader and thus its role may not be predominantly melee based (also bogus since its listed role is Soldier, not to mention it wields a weapon).

Its attacks seem (individually at least) far too weak. Now clearly its only a Level 26 Elite Monster once you factor in those summoned allies. Without them it may be closer to Level 20. Secondly, while its abilities are individually weak, they probably tote up to a relatively tidy amount. Though this assumes Fire Resistance is scarce, or at least much less prevailant than we are used to.

Its dearth of magic items is also particularly glaring considering its relative status.

Still I think the good outweighs the bad.

 

[Wolfspider]

IMO, Legion Devils were the best thing to come out of FC2 -- they're the first devil that actually works like a devil should, and I'm very happy to see the Pit Fiend using advanced versions of them.

And apparently blowing up his prized minions as well.

 

[tomtill]

And why do people think suicide bomber devils are so cool? To me, it makes everything seem painfully gamey...the summoned devils aren't "really" devils, they're a special effect for an explosion power. I find it almost unbearably cheesy. Can they explode normally? If not, how does he "command" them to explode? The power isn't "Irresistible command" it's "Make Devil Go Boom", which makes one wonder why he can't make the PCs go boom instead...it's an odd sort of power that lets you make a summoned ally explode.)

A devil's ally may refer to a special binding relationship between the pit fiend and the minion, such as between a radiant idol and his cultists, that allows supernatural manipulations. This is also in keeping with the devil theme of binding pacts and bargains. Consider also the immortal aspect of a devil; perhaps on reforming it becomes a devil higher in the hierarchy, and thus welcomes the chance to prove its worth. Although devils, not demons, these are still creatures of fire residing within the Nine Hells. Neither their psychology nor their physiology must necessarily fit humanoid mortal (non-devil) preconceptions. Exploding an ally, willing or not, doesn't seem far fetched to me.

 

[Wolfspider]

No, a few people on EN World have a problem with it. But a few people on EN World always seem to have a problem with everything involving 4e.

OK.

 

[Intrope]

I'm at my fiancee's house, so when I go home tonight, I will have to break out my copy of the FC2 and read up on these things.

If you could post a summary description of them when you get a chance, that would help; I've never even seen a copy of FC2, much less read it!

 

[frankthedm]

IIRC they have a big Hellboy like arm they use as a shield.

 

[Dragonblade]

OK.

Sorry man. Didn't mean to be snarky. But its like every thread someone has to find something wrong.

I think if WotC ever gives us a preview that everyone likes we better check the thermostat in hell.

 

[FourthBear]

I hate to harp on about gear, but it does pose an issue with giving monsters PC classes. Gear is factored into PC class abilities.

Yes, and I feel sure that when the DMG (or Monster Manual) gives ranges for the various stats that make for an appropriate challenge at a certain level, they will be assuming that the final numbers include all relevant bonuses. I believe that long term buffs will be going the way of the dodo, so for any real increases during a combat encounter are expected to come from the opponent's actions during the rounds of combat.

The important thing to remember is what a monster level doesn't mean. It's doesn't mean in any way that the monster has equivalent abilities to a PC of a certain level. It means that it would make for a challenging opponent (whether the context is combat, social or whatever). A monster that has had class levels added is under no constraints to have to take the appropriate level of gear. In fact, I don't think it would be very good design for it to gain all of the various non-class specific abilities in the class description. If you generate a Fire Giant cleric, why should that cleric be automatically superior in combat to the other Fire Giants, as it would be in 4e? The presumption is that the stats for a Fire Giant represent the training and experience and hereditary ability common to Fire Giants. A Fire Giant cleric would presumably get that (or even possibly less) and the clerical training. I would suggest that the preferred suggestion in most cases is to add level appropriate class abilities and not to add unwanted items or increases in stats.

 

[helium3]

Sorry man. Didn't mean to be snarky. But its like every thread someone has to find something wrong.

I think if WotC ever gives us a preview that everyone likes we better check the thermostat in hell.

It's not the snark that's the problem, it's that the logical conclusion of your statement is that anyone who has a negative opinion about an aspect of 4E is somehow unreasonable and shouldn't participate in threads.

What would the threads be about, in that case? They'd all basically read like "Wow, that's so cool!! I love this!!" with a couple of "Here's a neat synergy I figured out for an encounter with a Pit Fiend and a Black Pudding with enough wizard levels to boost it to 26th level."