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The Divine Oracle's Prescient Sense
- Thread starter Pazu
- Start date
Nonlethal Force
First Post
Okay, here is a related question.
For those of you who think prescient sense is a form of evasion:
Suppose I have a Cleric 5/Divine Oracle 2/Monk 2. [Don't ask why ... cause I admit it is a very odd combo. Just suppose...] Would you allow the prescient sense and evasion to stack and grant improved evasion?
I'll state my opinion so you have the opportunity to agree or disagree, and I've been proven wrong before many times so go right ahead ...
I'd say no. For several reasons:
1. In the rules for uncanny dodge, the authors took special time to include text that says uncanny dodge granted by seperate classes combine to grant improved uncanny dodge. No such text appears in the evasion descriptor for monk or rogue.
2. If that combo would be allowed, that means that the level 9 mixed up character listed above is getting improved evasion at the same level as a monk would get it staraight out. That just seems wrong considering that 6 of the levels were earned before prescient sense was even granted! [Although I do realize that a barbarian 2/Rogue 4 gets Imp. Uncanny Dodge 2 levels before a straight out rogue would ... but see #1 as to why I don't think this sets a precedent for the stacking of evasion]
3. I'm a mean and cruel DM and wouldn't do it just to spite people!
Okay, I admit it, I only had 2 good reasons and I just made up this third one. But academically it is an interesting question to ask, even if I don't think they should stack like uncanny dodge does.
Oh, and those of you that don't think prescient sense counts as evasion ... I already know your answer to this ... but feel free to chime in with your "No, because prescient sense is named different than evasion" argument. Because in the end, the names are a legitimate foundation for the argument - whether I agree with it or not!
For those of you who think prescient sense is a form of evasion:
Suppose I have a Cleric 5/Divine Oracle 2/Monk 2. [Don't ask why ... cause I admit it is a very odd combo. Just suppose...] Would you allow the prescient sense and evasion to stack and grant improved evasion?
I'll state my opinion so you have the opportunity to agree or disagree, and I've been proven wrong before many times so go right ahead ...
I'd say no. For several reasons:
1. In the rules for uncanny dodge, the authors took special time to include text that says uncanny dodge granted by seperate classes combine to grant improved uncanny dodge. No such text appears in the evasion descriptor for monk or rogue.
2. If that combo would be allowed, that means that the level 9 mixed up character listed above is getting improved evasion at the same level as a monk would get it staraight out. That just seems wrong considering that 6 of the levels were earned before prescient sense was even granted! [Although I do realize that a barbarian 2/Rogue 4 gets Imp. Uncanny Dodge 2 levels before a straight out rogue would ... but see #1 as to why I don't think this sets a precedent for the stacking of evasion]
3. I'm a mean and cruel DM and wouldn't do it just to spite people!
Okay, I admit it, I only had 2 good reasons and I just made up this third one. But academically it is an interesting question to ask, even if I don't think they should stack like uncanny dodge does.Oh, and those of you that don't think prescient sense counts as evasion ... I already know your answer to this ... but feel free to chime in with your "No, because prescient sense is named different than evasion" argument. Because in the end, the names are a legitimate foundation for the argument - whether I agree with it or not!
Nonlethal Force said:
Would you allow a Rogue 2/Monk 2 to have Improved Evasion?
Neither the DO's Prescient Sense, the Monk/Rogues description of Evasion, nor the general description say they stack in this fashion. Therefore, as a general case they don't (with some PrC's as specific exceptions).
Saeviomagy
Adventurer
I think the real question here is
Why the hell not?
I mean honestly - if it's for qualifying for a class, they do exactly the same thing - the character can get out of the way of danger quickly. He just happens to do it by forseeing the future instead of being preternaturally quick. The end result is the same. If evasion is needed for a class or feat because of the end result, it should be fine. If it's needed because he has to pass some guild test... again, fine.
In fact the only reason I can imagine NOT to allow this is for some stupid class that requires evasion solely to force people to take 2 levels in rogue or monk.
In which case, I might pick out a better prerequisite for a crappy PrC rather than try to say that something that looks, smells and for all intents and purposes IS evasion isn't actually evasion.
Why the hell not?
I mean honestly - if it's for qualifying for a class, they do exactly the same thing - the character can get out of the way of danger quickly. He just happens to do it by forseeing the future instead of being preternaturally quick. The end result is the same. If evasion is needed for a class or feat because of the end result, it should be fine. If it's needed because he has to pass some guild test... again, fine.
In fact the only reason I can imagine NOT to allow this is for some stupid class that requires evasion solely to force people to take 2 levels in rogue or monk.
In which case, I might pick out a better prerequisite for a crappy PrC rather than try to say that something that looks, smells and for all intents and purposes IS evasion isn't actually evasion.
