D&D 5E The Divine Ranks

[Minigiant]

So for those who use them, 5th edition reduced the number of divine ranks and changed them up a bit.
The 5th DMG states 3 ranks: greater deities, lesser deities, and quasi deities.

Greater are the big ones. They rare get into mortal business and slaying their avatar usually does jack squat to them.
Lesser are weaker. They live then to live in places mortals (if strong enough) can reach.
Quasi deities are the weakest. They can't or don't grant spells. And they are split into 3 categories: Demigods (mortals with a deity parent), Titans (divine creations), and Vestiges (dead or forgotten deities). It suggests that they are stuck with creating warlocks until they ascend.

Well most noticeable, the cut of intermediate deities and renaming of demigods. The old intermediates and demigods jump a rank. And I guess the demigod rank was shifted to make pre-death Hercules and Achilles demigods again like 4th edition and the myths did.

4th edition created the concept of an Exarch. Since it had no demigods or quasideities, any divine ranked being under another deity was an exarch. With demigods back, an exarch would now only be a lesser deity in service of another diety or lower members of racial pantheon. Like Dawn-War-Maglubiyet, Xena's Strife, and all of the dwarven deities not named Moradin.

Older editions have heroic deities. With demigods defined in 5th, these leaves hero deities as "mortals with granted or stolen divinity but no enough power to grant spells". These are many of the epic destinies in 4th. Kill an epic lich and the god of death dumps boons all on your party.

• Greater Deities
  • Overdeities
  • Greater Deities
  • intermediate Deities
• Lesser Deities
  • Lesser Deities
  • Exarchs
• Quasi-deities
  • Demigods
  • Titans
  • Vestiges
  • Hero Deities
  • Proxies
• Non-Divines

So what are your thoughts? Are there any other type of deities? Where do being like Greek Titans, the 4th edition stars, or Great Old Ones fits?

 

[SkidAce]

5th edition is almost right for me.

I have pantheons (filled with lesser powers) with a greater deity leader. These pantheons normally govern/influence cosmic geographical areas. And I can use the quasi deities for the pawns and minions, and unique mythological monsters.

So far a decent fit. And these pantheons can war with each other as their interests conflict.


However, there are about five or six deities that have influence any where you go cosmically, and had a hand in the development of the cosmos (Ptah, Istus, Thoth, Bahamut, Tiamat, etc.).

5e leaves me no category for them. Granted they are normally more like story elements, and when they do "manifest" I could use greater god as their category.

Hmmmm...

 

[Minigiant]

5th edition is almost right for me.

I have pantheons (filled with lesser powers) with a greater deity leader. These pantheons normally govern/influence cosmic geographical areas. And I can use the quasi deities for the pawns and minions, and unique mythological monsters.

So far a decent fit. And these pantheons can war with each other as their interests conflict.


However, there are about five or six deities that have influence any where you go cosmically, and had a hand in the development of the cosmos (Ptah, Istus, Thoth, Bahamut, Tiamat, etc.).

5e leaves me no category for them. Granted they are normally more like story elements, and when they do "manifest" I could use greater god as their category.

Hmmmm...

Sounds like they are greater deities. They just lack their own exarch lesser deities.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

sounds like an awesome idea, I;m going to break out my 3e Deity and Demigod out and look at DIvine Rank 0-20 and try to mesh it up a bit...

I know imagine a game where the PCs become exarchs and demi gods to fight off the old forgotten gods...

 

[I'm A Banana]

2e Planescape had the concept of a Proxy, an otherwise mortal creature gifted with some bit of divine essence to serve as the deity's agent in the world. In 5e, I'd say most proxies are probably quasi-deities.

 

[SkidAce]

2e Planescape had the concept of a Proxy, an otherwise mortal creature gifted with some bit of divine essence to serve as the deity's agent in the world. In 5e, I'd say most proxies are probably quasi-deities.

I'm thinking this notion may work for me.

Cosmic Powers: Greater Gods, Lesser God Avatar/Proxy
Pantheon Leaders: Greater Gods (flexible) Quasi-deity Avatar/Proxy
Pantheon Members: Lesser Gods, Quasi-deity Avatar/Proxy
Quasi-Deities, Minons, Monsters: No avatars/proxies.


Or I just might breakout my copy of "The Primal Order" from a little known company called WotC.

 

[Minigiant]

Would a Magic the Gathering style planeswalker count as a quasi-deity?

 

[EzekielRaiden]

While I'm not as up-to-snuff on the specific details of Exarch-ness in 4e, in general I'd say that they aren't really on the same level as a "Lesser Deity." I'd probably organize things more like this:

Overdeities
(no subcategories)

Deities
Greater Deities
Primordials
Intermediate Deities

Lesser Deities
Titans
Lesser Deities
Hero Deities (or possibly in the level below)

Quasi-deities
Exarchs
Demigods
Vestiges
Proxies

Overdeity is its own thing: if there's a hierarchy, Overdeity sits at the top, a deity who can boss around everyone else. In general, I usually think most settings lack one, or if there is one it's extremely standoffish. (A character idea I've had, though, is a Paladin with the heterodox belief that his god is a becoming Overdeity--not one yet, but eventually will be one.)

Deities, unqualified, are those entities which are capable of sweeping change and which have core "portfolios" with generic application. Greater deities in particular: though they may have very close affiliation with a single race (e.g. Corellon to elves, Bahamut and Tiamat to dragonborn, Moradin to dwarves), their concepts and precepts are valued by many races. Intermediate deities are their peers who may have narrower interests, but still remain fairly big players (so, for instance, Lolth would probably be an Intermediate deity under this scheme). Primordials are, of course, the more "material stuff-of-existence" supernatural powerhouses, the Elemental Chaos equivalent to the Astral Sea's Deities: where deities might be described as "concepts given life and sentience," primordials are forces given life and sentience.

Lesser deities are still deific, but with very clearly narrow application. A god revered exclusively by a single race, or the god that watches over a single city, etc. might qualify as this. (I say "might" because my aforementioned example of Lolth probably straddles a line here.) They're still true gods, capable of directly influencing the world, but their scope is substantially smaller. If a true deity were like a nation or an empire, a lesser deity is like an individual state (in the US sense) or, possibly, on the lowest end a county--still powerful and influential, but not at all on the same scale.

Quasi-deities really aren't "deities" at all, which is why I put the "Hero deities" with the lesser ones (presuming they really do have deific, divine-spell-granting, etc. powers). Quasi-deities can run a spectrum of power and some might even be more powerful than lesser deities, but they experience severe limits or total lack of ability in areas that all "true" deities should perform just fine in. Vestiges, for example (to continue the political analogy) are like the ghosts of prior political eras or fringe political parties--they have some influence, and sometimes even rise up to touch the national level, but they're not really main players. Exarchs would be more akin to the heads of particular departments within a government--their power is an office appointed by their superiors, not (usually) a position ensconced by law. Like the various "[Issue] Czars" that have cropped up in US politics in the past decade or two.

 

[Minigiant]

While I'm not as up-to-snuff on the specific details of Exarch-ness in 4e, in general I'd say that they aren't really on the same level as a "Lesser Deity." I'd probably organize things more like this:

The thing is, half the exarchs in 4e were powerful deities and the other were demigods. Bane has all the goblin panetheon as exarchs, Maglubiyet, Hruggek, and rest. Corellon has all the elven gods except Loth and the evil dow gods and Sehanine as exarchs.

With demigods defined, the remaining exarchs are all deities strong enough to create clerics. They just have leashes. Maglubiyet cannot create a thousand clerics and declare an Unholy War without Bane's permission. But create a hundred and appear to some hobgoblins with an anti-elf speech, no issue. But Bane and Maglubiyet are about equal strength.

Overdeity is its own thing: if there's a hierarchy, Overdeity sits at the top, a deity who can boss around everyone else. In general, I usually think most settings lack one, or if there is one it's extremely standoffish. (A character idea I've had, though, is a Paladin with the heterodox belief that his god is a becoming Overdeity--not one yet, but eventually will be one.)

I'd still lump overdieties with greater ones. They just run the joint and don't need worship to maintain power. Zues and Odin aren't that much a step over their siblings and children.

 

[Staffan]

Well most noticeable, the cut of intermediate deities and renaming of demigods.

Intermediate deities were a bit of a cheat anyway back in the day. Time for a history lesson:

In 1e, you only had Greater gods, Lesser gods, and Demigods. Greater gods could grant up to 7th level cleric spells (the maximum back then), Lesser gods up to 6th level, and Demigods up to 5th level. Because people didn't want to play a cleric of Apollo all the way up to 14th level and then learn that they wouldn't get to cast resurrection, the various pantheons were rather top-heavy, with plenty of Greater gods around.

In 2e, someone made the call that the term "Greater god" should primarily be used for the leaders of pantheons, like Zeus or Odin. But the issue of Lesser gods only granting lower-level spells remained, so the term "Intermediate god" was invented for gods that were still major players, but not pantheon heads. So in 2e materials, a bunch of gods that had previously been named Greater gods were "demoted" to Intermediate status. Forgotten Realms, instead kept all the Greater gods Greater, and instead bumped up all the Lesser to Intermediate and a good chunk of the Demigods to Lesser. FR also got rid of the rule about Lesser gods and Demigods being limited to granting 6th or lower-level spells. This all happened sometime between 1990 (which has Forgotten Realms Adventures still having gods like Beshaba and Helm described as Lesser powers), and 1993 (2e FRCS "promoting" them to Intermediates) - probably with the release of Legends & Lore, also in 1990.

But these days gods aren't limited in what spells they may grant anyway, so there's really little point to the classification "Intermediate". Greater, Lesser, and Demigods (or Quasi-gods, with Demigods being a subgroup there) are enough differentiation.