D&D 5E The Divine Ranks

[gyor]

Actually I guess this effectively promotes all the demigods to Lesser Deities and all intermediate Deities to Greater Gods. So Sharess, Garagos, Jergal, Valkur and Llirra would both be Lesser Deities now instead of Demigods. That's a major power boost to these beings and explains how their powerful enough now to have their own Chosen.

Also looking at the list of Quasi deities it's obvious that Empyrean Titans are quasi deities. Also interesting that instead of granting divine magic like Paladins, Clerics, Rangers, and Druids, they can only grant power via the Warlock Class. Makes one wonder if the Warlock Class will someday gain the Quasi Deity Patron subclass.

Also I think it's clear from the description that Archfiends and Archcelestials would count as Quasi Deities (except Asmodeaus who is more powerful).

 

[Twiggly the Gnome]

Also I think it's clear from the description that Archfiends and Archcelestials would count as Quasi Deities (except Asmodeaus who is more powerful).

That would be, disappointing. I never understood the WotC folk's fiend-crush on Asmodeus. They even shoehorned Baator into the 4E Eberron cosmology, just to make him a special snowflake amongst fiends.

 

[Minigiant]

Also I think it's clear from the description that Archfiends and Archcelestials would count as Quasi Deities (except Asmodeaus who is more powerful).

Only if they have divinity.

Asmodeus ascended and thus has divinity.
Mephistopheles absorb part of Mask in Forgotten Realms so he is a demigod or lesser deity.

 

[Nellisir]

So what are your thoughts? Are there any other type of deities? Where do being like Greek Titans, the 4th edition stars, or Great Old Ones fits?

This is...not dissimilar to how I organize deities. Frankly, it was a bit weird reading the D&D descriptions.

IMC, there are a number of deific ranks or groupings:

The Elder Host: The primal deities of creation. Clearly greater gods.
The Host of the Dalerain: The offspring of the Elder Host and mortals who have attained a deific status. There are a number of them, of varying power (by age and portfolio), so a gradation would be useful, but "lesser deity" is fine for now. The Dalerain and the Elder Host are the only ones capable of granting spells.
The Host of the Envidier: The multitude of heroes (and villains) not powerful enough to be actual gods. Includes Dalerain that have lost power, mortals that have gained power, and all other sorts. Demi-powers, Exarchs, and the like fit in here quite well. In the real world, saints, Hercules, and etc. would be Envidier. An Envidier who mingles with mortals might engender a sorcerous bloodline. They can also empower warlocks.
The Typhos: The Typhos are the result of congress between two deities. They are almost always narcissistic monstrosities. They're on par with the Envidier, but utterly lack any divine spark. An Envidier might, in time, become a Dalerain, but a Typhos never does. This...pisses them off. They have TWO divine parents, after all. Titans and the tarrasque are Typhos, as are a number of unique fiends. They can empower warlocks or cultists.

Vestiges are probably Typhos in disguise. Dalerain who lose power become Envidier, Envidier who die are dead. There are two dead Elder Host, but they don't get worshipped so much as commemorated, and both died before mortal races were created anyhow.

Edit: I don't do Great Old Ones. Beyond the World is Nothing. There is nothing in the Nothing. That's the point of it. (That, incidentally, is how/why the two Elder Host are dead; Erdis was slain by his/her/it's brethren to prevent it from destroying the World (Erdis was a bit nihilistic) and Yau took most of Erdis's remains into the Nothing to properly dispose of them. Erdis's bones were used to make giants, it's blood to make dragons, its flesh to make humans, and its inner organs to make gnomes. Evil gods stole the head and made dopplegangers, oculuth, sapints, and...something else. Formorians, maybe. A fraction of Erdis' heart was used to sharpen a particular sword, so something of that might survive, but otherwise Yau took all the leftovers and discarded bits and carried them off.)

 

[Staffan]

Actually I guess this effectively promotes all the demigods to Lesser Deities and all intermediate Deities to Greater Gods. So Sharess, Garagos, Jergal, Valkur and Llirra would both be Lesser Deities now instead of Demigods. That's a major power boost to these beings and explains how their powerful enough now to have their own Chosen.

I certainly hope not, given that many deities already got a promotion back in 2e.

 

[Shiroiken]

I never liked Intermediate Deities anyway, but I'm ignoring the whole "demi-gods" can't grant spells thing (mostly because of Iuz). My setup works as follows:

Greater Gods: The most powerful of beings that have many spheres of influence and concerns over primal forces and many worlds. This includes the creator deities for most races, listed Greater Gods from Greyhawk, and the "leader" of various Outer Planes (Asmodeous, Anthraxus, Primus, ect.). They have far too much to do to focus on a single mortal world, so they are not very active.

Lesser Gods: The most common of powerful beings that usually have a small sphere of influence or limited focus on worlds. This includes most gods, and powerful unique outsiders (Demon rulers, the Dukes of Hell, etc.). They are much more likely to have an interest in the mortal world, but still seldom intervene directly.

Demi-gods: The weakest of those able to grant spells, and are usually limited both in influence and to a single world. This includes immortals who have gained sufficient divine power (Iuz) and lesser unique outsiders (such as unique devils that serve the Dukes of Hell). They can be very active in the mortal world, sometimes as agents of more powerful masters.

Immortals: These beings have surpassed mortality, but cannot grant spells, and so have Warlocks instead of true priests. This includes quasi-deities and hero-gods (Heward, Myrlund, etc.), as well as non-unique outsiders (mostly fiendish). They either live in a mortal world or have a strong tie to a single mortal world.

Please note, that I don't really acknowledge anything on this topic outside of 1E, except the 2E Monster Mythology. This means that some of my names might be different, I don't acknowledge the Blood War, Orcus never died, etc.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

On battling gods with the current setup. Greater Gods are now out of reach and can only be fought in Avatar form and their Avatars are stated to be as powerful as lesser gods. Lesser Gods dwell on the Planes and can be encountered and fought, By Tiamat's example Lesser Gods are CR 30 and Greater God Avatars are the same. Quasi Deities can very I would say but always be above 20 unless really young.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

The thing is, half the exarchs in 4e were powerful deities and the other were demigods. Bane has all the goblin panetheon as exarchs, Maglubiyet, Hruggek, and rest. Corellon has all the elven gods except Loth and the evil dow gods and Sehanine as exarchs.

With demigods defined, the remaining exarchs are all deities strong enough to create clerics. They just have leashes. Maglubiyet cannot create a thousand clerics and declare an Unholy War without Bane's permission. But create a hundred and appear to some hobgoblins with an anti-elf speech, no issue. But Bane and Maglubiyet are about equal strength.

Fair enough--though it's strange to me that Maglubiyet is "about equal strength" but willing to put up with being on a leash. You'd think that power dynamic wouldn't last.

I'd still lump overdieties with greater ones. They just run the joint and don't need worship to maintain power. Zues and Odin aren't that much a step over their siblings and children.

That's because Zeus and Odin aren't overdeities. They could be slain, for instance. Most ancient mythology didn't really do "overdeity." Egypt has a few that are kinda like that, but other than maybe Ra, it's not really spelled out until Akhenaten's (debatably) monotheistic Aten. Ahura Mazda from Zoroastrianism, maybe Brahman from Hinduism, and of course YHWH from Judaism are other examples, but they're fairly starkly different from the polytheistic or henotheistic traditions of Europe and elsewhere.

An overdeity, at least as I understand it, has power over other gods equivalent to the power gods have over mortals. Ao can dictate to the other gods what they can and cannot do, can change their natures (e.g. making them dependent on worship to survive, when they were not so dependent before), and can choose not only whether or not the gods retain various powers (granting spells) but also whether or not someone can ascend to godhood. None of these powers is even remotely within the definition of being a deity in D&D, which (to me) says there's a much bigger gap than you're suggesting.

 

[lvl20dm]

I suspect this will see some gods previously defined as Intermediate dropping to lesser, while other intermediates becoming greater (on a case by case basis). The sidebar specifies Lolth as a lesser god - in Forgotten Realms, at least, she has been defined as a demon lord, an intermediate god, and a greater god. Lesser fits, though, if we want her residing in the Demonweb Pits, but also granting spells.

Tiamat would also be a lesser deity, as would Bahamut. I think Asmodeus and the various archfiends are interesting. I don't know if Lesser god fits (maybe for Asmodeus), but they don't seem to fall into the quasi-deity sub-categories. The various archdevils empowering warlocks fits better than clerics, certainly.

 

[Minigiant]

That's because Zeus and Odin aren't overdeities. They could be slain, for instance. Most ancient mythology didn't really do "overdeity." Egypt has a few that are kinda like that, but other than maybe Ra, it's not really spelled out until Akhenaten's (debatably) monotheistic Aten. Ahura Mazda from Zoroastrianism, maybe Brahman from Hinduism, and of course YHWH from Judaism are other examples, but they're fairly starkly different from the polytheistic or henotheistic traditions of Europe and elsewhere.

An overdeity, at least as I understand it, has power over other gods equivalent to the power gods have over mortals. Ao can dictate to the other gods what they can and cannot do, can change their natures (e.g. making them dependent on worship to survive, when they were not so dependent before), and can choose not only whether or not the gods retain various powers (granting spells) but also whether or not someone can ascend to godhood. None of these powers is even remotely within the definition of being a deity in D&D, which (to me) says there's a much bigger gap than you're suggesting.

Do overdieties run polytheistic pantheons through power or just authority. Do they have actually that much more strength or just have the highest governing power?

Ao writes the rules but is it through strength or is it a power of the office?