the druid PHB II shaphshifter , what am I missing ???

[Phasics]

Cool Cool

apprecaite all the input I guess I'll just take my chances and see what happens

On a game play note of thoes who have played a druid shapeshifter , obivously you cant cast while shifted so how do you get around this ? shift at the beginning of every round you want to cast a spell and then shift back next round to attack again ? Or cast all the spells you want to cast towards the start and jump in to combat towards the end ? what strategies have you found to play to the classes advantages ?

And on a side note
for anyone who has played a druid shapehsifter to high levels is the fact all your gear becomes nonfunctional really put you at a big disadvantage or is the discomfort minimal ? Or did you DM simply rule certain items stay functional to keep you competative in the group ? or did you find a groovy way to suppliment this ?

thanks again for the good info

 

[MarkB]

Cool Cool

apprecaite all the input I guess I'll just take my chances and see what happens

On a game play note of thoes who have played a druid shapeshifter , obivously you cant cast while shifted so how do you get around this ? shift at the beginning of every round you want to cast a spell and then shift back next round to attack again ? Or cast all the spells you want to cast towards the start and jump in to combat towards the end ? what strategies have you found to play to the classes advantages ?

The first one - just shift as a swift action, then spellcast, then shift back next round for combat. About all you lose out on are AoOs.

And on a side note
for anyone who has played a druid shapehsifter to high levels is the fact all your gear becomes nonfunctional really put you at a big disadvantage or is the discomfort minimal ? Or did you DM simply rule certain items stay functional to keep you competative in the group ? or did you find a groovy way to suppliment this ?

You need to concentrate on non-gear enhancements for your shapeshift forms - feats and spells. Anything that boosts your strength or size carries over to your shifted form, though somewhat frustratingly there's no easy way to apply enhancements like greater magic fang to yourself, because you're not a valid target until you've shifted, and then you can't cast the spell. It might be worth asking your DM if he's prepared to allow a workaround for that.

 

[Teydyn]

Anything that boosts your strength or size carries over to your shifted form, though somewhat frustratingly there's no easy way to apply enhancements like greater magic fang to yourself, because you're not a valid target until you've shifted, and then you can't cast the spell.

Read the shifting rules again.
Druids gets Greater Magic Fang for all their natural attacks while shifted for free.

 

[MarkB]

Read the shifting rules again.
Druids gets Greater Magic Fang for all their natural attacks while shifted for free.

So they do. I'd forgotten about the enhancement bonus, and was thinking they just counted as magic weapons for DR purposes (I have my character's alternate forms written out with the total attack and damage bonuses, so only refer to the book when levelling up).

 

[Christian]

The first one - just shift as a swift action, then spellcast, then shift back next round for combat. About all you lose out on are AoOs.

It's mostly pretty painless. Usually, if I expect to be in melee soon, I cast my buffing spells early. Then when combat starts, one blasting spell & then shift. In a combat where it looks like my area-effect spells will be particularly useful, I'll hang back & cast for a while, then shapeshift & help the warrior-types mop up at the end. Again, the unlimited swift shapeshifts comes in handy here; if I find I'm not in the most advantageous form, I just change forms. No lost actions, no running out of uses.

You need to concentrate on non-gear enhancements for your shapeshift forms - feats and spells. Anything that boosts your strength or size carries over to your shifted form ...

The wizard that joined our party is my new best friend. Mage Armor really helps make my shifting AC competitive ... It's not entirely clear whether the size increase from Enlarge Person will make my upcoming Ferocious Slayer form Huge, due to the rules about stacking size-changing effects. IMO, it shouldn't, but my DM is evidently considering it.

 

[Phasics]

It's not entirely clear whether the size increase from Enlarge Person will make my upcoming Ferocious Slayer form Huge, due to the rules about stacking size-changing effects. IMO, it shouldn't, but my DM is evidently considering it.

heh it's all in the order

shift into ferricous slayer, for all intensive purposes you are now permenatly large unless you choose otherwise, its not an effect and it cannot be dispelled.
your subtype is still humanoid even though you dont look it
then have enlarge person cast on you.

the size changes come from differnt sources, one is a supernatural power the other is a spell , last time I checked in most cases stacking only stops you using the same thing twice e.g. 2 enlarge person spells cannot make you twice the size.

Put it this way, since you are still suceptible to any spell that targets humanoids then you should still be able to benefit from any spell that target humanoids, fair is fair.

 

[Christian]

heh it's all in the order

shift into ferricous slayer, for all intensive purposes you are now permenatly large unless you choose otherwise, its not an effect and it cannot be dispelled.
your subtype is still humanoid even though you dont look it
then have enlarge person cast on you.

the size changes come from differnt sources, one is a supernatural power the other is a spell , last time I checked in most cases stacking only stops you using the same thing twice e.g. 2 enlarge person spells cannot make you twice the size.

Put it this way, since you are still suceptible to any spell that targets humanoids then you should still be able to benefit from any spell that target humanoids, fair is fair.

That's pretty much the opinion of our wizard's player. I'm somewhat dubious--there's a general rule that 'magical effects that change size don't stack' somewhere or other.

But neither of us is my character's DM. (Sadly, neither are you. ) The DM is supposedly pondering this particular question ... It'll be a bit before my drood is 8th level, so it's currently tabled in favor of more immediate questions. But he let me use Produce Flame in melee in Predator form (spell cast before I shapeshifted, he gave me a kind of 'flaming bite' effect from it), so he seems to be inclined in general towards allowing rather than disallowing weird interactions.

 

[Phasics]

(Sadly, neither are you. ) The DM is supposedly pondering this particular question ... It'll be a bit before my drood is 8th level, so it's currently tabled in favor of more immediate questions. But he let me use Produce Flame in melee in Predator form (spell cast before I shapeshifted, he gave me a kind of 'flaming bite' effect from it), so he seems to be inclined in general towards allowing rather than disallowing weird interactions.

hehehe true true

sounds like your DM is fairly reasonable then, end of the day getting an extra size step is basically good for 2 things, More damage and better grapples (and some other brutish moves)
dont know if you have a frontline fighter in your party but if you do he's a good benchmark for allowing or disallowing.

if you go from Large to Huge in Ferocous Pred your claws go from 1d6 to 1d8 and your bite goes from 1d8 to 2d6. oddly enough the higher values are what a normal Tiger or Bear (large) get as thier damage which a regualr wildshaping druid would be able to get.

But like I said it depend on the makeup of your group, as a druid your not meant to be frontline and if the double size makes you more effective than anyone else in frontline then I'd suggest not allowing it, however if your still less effective than a regular fighter and not treading on the roles of anyone else in the party then why not, being Huge is just cool hehehe

Another alternative is allwoing you to become huge but not have your dmg dice change for attacks so you can do things huge critters do but game mechanics wise your damage stays the same. handy for grappling another Huge critter so everyone can beat the crap outta it

balence on the fly is half the reason DM's are so popular hehehe

 

[brendan candries]

actually the predator form gains 1.5xstr damage since the bite is his only weapon.

with a base 14 str getting enhanced to 18 for a +4 to hit and d6+6 damage of all types (blunt/pierce/slash) you are among the hard hitters in the early stage of the campaign.

 

[Phasics]

actually the predator form gains 1.5xstr damage since the bite is his only weapon.

with a base 14 str getting enhanced to 18 for a +4 to hit and d6+6 damage of all types (blunt/pierce/slash) you are among the hard hitters in the early stage of the campaign.

are you sure ?

I was under the impression the 1.5x mod was for melee weapons 2h. I thought all natural weapons follow the simple rule 1x STR mod for primary 0.5 STR mod for secondary. if you can give a ref to show the 1.5x I'd appreciate it

Cheers