The Dungeon Masters' Foundation

[Buttercup]

Okays, I need help wording something. How should I word a house rule that says that even if the PC rolls a high knowledge check on something, they still may not know everything about said subject.

Two things.

First, why do you need a house rule for this? Just set the DC for certain bits of information so high that your player *can't* roll a successful check. You're the DM--if you want some knowledge hidden, why is this even an issue?

Second, you would get more responses to questions of this sort if you just posted them in general discussion. The majority of EN World members DM at least some of the time, and many are quite experienced. But many of those same people have little interest in or patience with joining a "guild" or "faction" which consists of page after page of white noise. Now, far be it from me to tell you what you can and can't do. Have your club if you like. I just thought it was worth pointing out that climbing into your backyard treehouse and hanging out a Members Only sign isn't the most effective way of getting the information you desire.

 

[BSF]

Knowing everything/not knowing everything would seem to be a variable. I am not quite sure what the best way to help you in this regard is. As Darkness said, why can't the PC know everything with a sufficiently high Knowledge check?

But really, what problem are you trying to fix? I use knowledge rolls relatively liberally in my games. I rely on knowledge rolls to give me excuses to flesh out more of the world for the players as it becomes relevant to the PCs. I also use them for stuff covered in the rules. I have never had a player say that a knowledge roll was so high they should "know everything". I have had knowledge rolls that were so high, at the right time, that I started winging new campaign material.

Of course, I am pretty sure I have never seen a knowledge roll break into the 45+ range either. Right now, the PCs in my game are 5-6 level average and a knowledge roll in the 30's is as high as they get.

 

[BSF]

I use music with lyrics to sometimes pull inspiration for stories in-game as well. I vaguelly recall a thead some time ago with songs for inspiration for adventures. I might have to do a search to see if I can dig that up again. Dio and Iron Maiden have provide lyrical inspiration for adventures lately.

I searched for the old thread on what songs have led to adventure ideas. Adventure Ideas from Songs Whew, that one is 6 months dead. I'm not sure I want to case a Raise Thread on that one. But there it is for reference.

 

[siege72]

Okays, I need help wording something. How should I word a house rule that says that even if the PC rolls a high knowledge check on something, they still may not know everything about said subject.

Heh... I feel your pain. In my high level game (RIP), the mage had a knowledge check modifier of +20 something.

I use a sliding DC scale, the larger the die roll, the more successful the check is within reason. At the bottom of the scale, there was no useful information (knowledge check of 10 or less). With reasonable successes (11-24), the character could information, but not how to use the information. Major successes (25+) gave the character information, and the player a way to use it... within reason.

Within reason means that if it's something totally new or outside the character's experience, they're going to be able to identify it as being "out there", but not say much more about it.

 

[LilMissKittyn]

Ok. Nominations.
How about BardStephenFox and Nightcloak? I know they're not originals but that shouldn't matter much, since we've been here a while, and they've certainly contributed a lot.

 

[Mordmorgan the Mad]

Ok. Nominations.
How about BardStephenFox and Nightcloak? I know they're not originals but that shouldn't matter much, since we've been here a while, and they've certainly contributed a lot.

I'll second that.

Anyhow, regarding the Knowledge checks, I'd also like to know why you want to limit them. I don't think you particularly need a house rule to regulate how much info the PCs get. There's no topic that someone can know absolutely everything about anyway, no matter how high thier check is. If you really want to house-rule it, just tell the PCs that there's some stuff you just can't learn in books/without doing it, no matter what your die roll is.

 

[Tinker Gnome]

Heh... I feel your pain. In my high level game (RIP), the mage had a knowledge check modifier of +20 something.

I use a sliding DC scale, the larger the die roll, the more successful the check is within reason. At the bottom of the scale, there was no useful information (knowledge check of 10 or less). With reasonable successes (11-24), the character could information, but not how to use the information. Major successes (25+) gave the character information, and the player a way to use it... within reason.

Within reason means that if it's something totally new or outside the character's experience, they're going to be able to identify it as being "out there", but not say much more about it.

Well, what the Mage would roll a Knowledge check on would be a type of fungus that was newly created by the god of disease. So, he would have NEVER heard of it before. The fungus is a fine powdery pink substance, and it travels on the wind and turns who ever it touches into some mutated verion of what it once was.

 

[Mordmorgan the Mad]

Well, what the Mage would roll a Knowledge check on would be a type of fungus that was newly created by the god of disease. So, he would have NEVER heard of it before. The fungus is a fine powdery pink substance, and it travels on the wind and turns who ever it touches into some mutated verion of what it once was.

In this case, no knowledge check (no matter how high) would allow the mage to have any clue about the fungus.

 

[Y.O.Morales]

I've been thinking for a while about the possibility of hosting the DMF in its own website (however, we must change the name to Game Master Foundation or otherwise we'll get a nice letter from WotC's lawyers). How that sounds?

If it's a viable option, I could help in setting up the website, but my aid will have to wait as I'm currently building my own personal website too.

 

[BSF]

OK, a couple of things. For those that have never seen it, I am linking Mark's DMing Advice thread. Talk about a great resource for some of the more interesting DM threads on EN World, this one has a lot to read. It is a thread that cross-links other threads.

Galeros, I wouldn't allow a Knowledge check to tell the PC everything about it. But with time to study (be it personal observation, experience, or just studying reports of what the fungus can do), then the PC might be able to extrapolate some things. Especially if coupled with the Heal skill!

Remember, the PC has devoted a portion of her development to being knowledgable. This isn't a golden key to bypass challenges, but it is an aspect of the character that you should be including in the game. Allow a sufficiently high Knowledge check to help with the situation and point toward possible causes or solutions.

Maybe the PC remember reading about a similar fungus back in the deep past? Perhaps the PC is able to extrapolate that this fungus has never existed before and the only way it could exist is if it were recently created. With a really good check, perhaps the PC extrapolates it further and guesses that some sort of divine guidance was granted. Perhaps the check is good enough to provide a 3 or 4 different possibilities for origin and that gives the party a starting point.

Or maybe the DC is so high that the PC still knows nothing aside from not recognizing the fungus.

My point is to avoid being closed minded about it. If the PC has devoted skill points into being good at something, allow them to be good at it. Being good isn't an automatic solution, but the PC does need to derive some benefit from the skills. Give the PC a bone to chew on, even if you don't want to give her the whole steak.

RE: DMF Council. Wow, thanks for the compliment LilMissKitten. I think I would want to hear more what's involved so I can be sure I could participate sufficiently before I would agree.