D&D 4E The EN World "Build A Ridiculously Complicated Character for D&D 4e" thread.

Ryujin

Legend
I'm waiting for the super-ultra-multiclassed bard character. :)

Just for that, I won't make the one that I was just launching CB to build :p

*EDIT* I started building a Bard that has Twin Strike as an at-will, 13 multi-class feats and many at-wills as encounter powers, and 15 skills, but haven't gotten around to allocating the powers yet.
 
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jbear

First Post
This is just something for fun for all of us and keep us busy for a while.

Lets see who can build the most ridiculously complicated character to play in the current character builder (yes, if it updates.. we'll count those too.. depending on how long this thread lives)..
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Rules:

Your race must fit the primary class (at least somewhat, see Wilden Wardens for example.. they're NOT too gimped), so that it doesn't appear they're too gimped or complicated because of lack of stats.

You cannot house rule your character. They must be 100% legal.

You must equip them in basic equipment. EG: No magic gear!

Anything else goes!

Copy and paste what you come up with. :)
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To start us out:


level 30
Githzerai, Monk|Shaman, Storvakal, Godmind
Monastic Tradition (Hybrid): Centered Breath (Hybrid)
Hybrid Monk: Hybrid Monk Fortitude
Companion Spirit (Hybrid): Stalker Spirit (Hybrid)
Hybrid Shaman: Hybrid Shaman Fortitude
Background: Akanûl (Akanûl Benefit)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 15, Con 20, Dex 25, Int 13, Wis 16, Cha 11.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 11, Con 13, Dex 18, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 8.


AC: 32 Fort: 38 Reflex: 38 Will: 34
HP: 177 Surges: 12 Surge Value: 44

POWERS
Hybrid at-will 1: Lion's Den
Hybrid at-will 1: Stalker's Strike

:)
Complicated because it would be complicated to hit with your shaman powers with this character? Why start with an 18 in DEX and a 12 in WIS. Surely you would be better off with a balanced 16 / 16 split for your hybrid to be effective?

I know we're just playing and that but if you were a watcher shaman your at will wouldn't need an attack roll, allowing you to give a free basic attack to an ally when you can't or it would be disadvantageous to do so.

I couldn't get past that at will and your WIS score to look at your character in any greater depth. I kind of got from your post you wanted 'non-gimped' characters.

Me ... going to go and mess around with a bard and his unlimited capability to multi class!
 

Minifig

First Post
Complicated because it would be complicated to hit with your shaman powers with this character? Why start with an 18 in DEX and a 12 in WIS. Surely you would be better off with a balanced 16 / 16 split for your hybrid to be effective?

You have to realize I balanced Monk and Shaman equally in that build... then what makes it complex to me anyway is the fact you have to balance Shaman's pets with the high damage dealing Monk's attacks. They just don't have a good synergism, and they're difficult to balance out.
 

Mad Hamish

First Post
What are hybrids?

Hybrids were introduced in PHB3.
Basically they're a different approach from 4th ed multiclassing to let you pick up abilities from two classes.

A hybrid character starts by picking 2 classes and they get some of the abilities of each of the two classes (and can pick up one or some of the class abilities they don't get by spending a feat)
they can choose powers from each class but there are some restrictions on what they can get in terms of power mix and how the different class abilities mix.

for instance a Hybrid Rogue can't get sneak attack damage when it attacks with a power from the other Hybrid class (so no twinstrike + hunter's quarry + sneak attack -> probably in response to the worldwide shortage of D6s it would create)
 

jbear

First Post
You have to realize I balanced Monk and Shaman equally in that build... then what makes it complex to me anyway is the fact you have to balance Shaman's pets with the high damage dealing Monk's attacks. They just don't have a good synergism, and they're difficult to balance out.
I know you did. You are obliged to when you create a hybrid. Them the rules. What you didn't balance were your stat scores. All Shamans powers key off Wisdom. At level 30 you have a +3 unmodified bonus to all your Shaman attacks ... or in other words, half of your powers. So, basically you aren't going to hit anything with them EVER. In which case you would need to choose Shaman's powers that do stuff without requiring a roll. Spirit's Prey for example (which is also an at will power).

The character you have made is reallyy only half a Monk, probably with some neat Shaman Utilities, but also with a bunch of powers that are little more than useless because they will only ever hit if you get seriously lucky with the dice.
 

Evilhalfling

Adventurer
I have a warforged warlord/warden with a warlock multi-class. His name is probably Warren.

I advanced him to 11th level and he isn't a terrible defender, prolly on par with a non-shielding swordmage, or a Str paladin.

ill post his summary when I have more time.
 

Mr. Teapot

First Post
I was all set to play <a href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13352313/gerasim.pdf">a psion who would always have three to five ghostly spirits at his beck and call</a> the other night, until the game got cancelled. Each spirit had slightly different mechanics ("No, Spirit Jim is an encounter power, and pops if it takes any damage. Spirit Bob is the one I can resummon as a free action at will. Spirit Susie is an at-will that can be summoned as a minor action or as part of my attack."). Then he also had a large variety of skill tricks ("I'll borrow Orsik's training in this skill, then use Speak with Spirits to give myself a boost and make the people actually trained in this skill look like chumps"). And, of course, he gets three at-will powers, each of which has several levels of augmentation, and a fe other things to spend PPs on as well.


...I just realized that the character sheet left off one of his powers, too (his per encounter healing from Mending Spirit). Even making his character sheet was too complicated.


I'm still not sure he's the most complicated he could be, but he's pretty complex. I didn't buy him any magic items, for example, which could have thrown in more problems. Maybe make him a hybrid psion/battlemind MC shaman or something.
 

fba827

Adventurer
what do people think is 'complicated' ?
I would imagine the more complicated PCs are those with a focus on more than one of the following:
1) companions/minions (aka extra tactical movement to consider each round)
2) heavy emphasis on triggered powers (immediate interupts/reactions/etc - they complicate the thought process after each action on other creatures' turns)
3) heavy emphasis on triggered traits (i.e. things that change based on circumstance, such as bonuses against bloodied targets or bonuses when bloodied, or if the target has some specific condition, etc - they complicate the thought process and bonus-style calculations with each roll)
4) nonstandard changes based on effects (i.e. monk, barbarian, and warden are examples of classes that have their tactical choices for any given combat changed by the daily power (or full discipline power) in effect at the time... thus, it's really hard to adopt a single tactical style to last through an entire day's worth of encounters)...
5) maybe a focus on multiattack powers (just a lot more to add up per each attack, and therefore the potential for more situational modifiers for each and every attack roll)

mmm.. i'm sure there are more but that's what i can think up off the top of my head
 

Mika

First Post
If level of complexity is measured by how many figures you can have on the board at one time, I would go with a hybrid ranger|artificer multiclassing into shaman and taking the Familiar Bloodsmith paragon path. You get a beast companion when you take the Hybrid Talent feat, a familiar when you take the Arcane Familiar feat, and a spirit companion when you take the shaman multiclassing feat. You get a second familiar at 16th level, at which point you can have five figures on the battle map. I am not aware of any combination that nets you a larger gang.
 

Artoomis

First Post
I think in actual play, a massively-multi-classed bard has got to be one of the most complicated PCs to play.

He's got options out the kazoo. Tons of immediate reactions & immediate interrupts. He's got something to do for almost every action that happens on the battlefield, often changing the results, not to mention what he does on his own turn with minor actions in addition to move/standard actions.

He can have a familiar plus, from multi-classing, a spirit companion, maybe an animal companion, a second familiar and who knows what else.

It's very difficult to keep track of it all! I have one an epic level, and it's tough to get through a round without forgetting something he could have done.
 
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