the Epic Gimp

[Jdvn1]

I think it was a sidebar in the Epic Level Handbook, too, so it might not be RAW either. The concept was that longer prestige classes makes more of an impact on character concepts. If you take 10 levels in a class, that's more significant on your personality than a 3 level PrC. Since they don't (usually) get longer than 10, you can expand it more as a character-defining thing.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

I have to ask, have there ever been any other Epic prestige classes published beyond those in the ELH? The ones there, well, they kinda stink unless your character concept was already going in exactly one of those directions. For example, High Proselytizer is probably okay for a cleric or druid, unless your cleric or druid isn't into speaking faith at large crowds of people, in which case there's no epic PrC that would suit that character. Of course, if your character was into that sort of thing it can't be beat.

But are there any more epic PrCs hidden somewhere in the backs of sourcebooks where I haven't noticed them?

 

[Brain]

Wizards put out some more epic PrCs on the web in their old epic articles.

 

[Kelleris]

They had an epic thingummy on the Wizards website that had some PrCs, I believe.

EDIT: Bah! Defeated by a disembodied brain!

 

[isoChron]

Players Guide to Faerun has some pure epic prestige classes.

EDIT: 2 actually. Netherese Arcanist and Spellfire Hierophant.

 

[the Jester]

I have to ask, have there ever been any other Epic prestige classes published beyond those in the ELH?

There are a few in the Dragon mag that previewed the ELH, too.

 

[apesamongus]

Clerics get nothing besides turn undead and more spells as they gain levels. Assuming your PRCs granted you full spell casting progression in addition to nifty special abilities you're probably already at an edge over just a straight level 20 cleric. Therefore the epic cleric is just catching up (took 'em long enough huh?).

Well, in theory, the prestige classes should be balanced (including "wasted" feats taken to qualify for the PrC) with extra cleric levels anyway, so this shouldn't be an issue.

But even if we acknolwledge that there's a balance problem, there's still an issue here in that there is nothing requiring that character to take those 10 cleric level and weaken himself back to balance. In fact, the opposite is true. Not only is there a strong incentive to take an additional PrC, you might as well take one that has partial spell progression, no spell progression, or worst, one of those quick grow to 9th independant spell progressions.

The way the Epic rules work throw the already tenuous balance between PrCs even more out of whack. Just imagine the ultimate PrC that gave full casting progression, all good saves, and fighter BAB. Now imagine taking that class after 20. And as that imaginary class's evil twin, look at Shining Blade of Heironeous, and think of a good reason my 10/5/5 character shouldn't take that past 20 instead of standard cleric (even though taking it pre-20 would seem kind of weak given the lost casting ability)

 

[nothing to see here]

three cheers for the EPIC GIMP

I'm just piping in to lend my whole-hearted support to giving this thread the "Thread title of the week" award...knocking off my previous favourite thread titled "gargantuan minitures"...

 

[TheYeti1775]

The Epic Book is Broke

The Epic Book is broke in my opinion.

Because of it's rules it does not pay for any of the True Spell Casters (Wizards / Clerics / Sorc's) to either multi-class or take a PrC that does not offer full progression. They end up penalized for it.

One house rule we used in Funeris's Game, is as follows.
You can only gain Epic progression in the following cases:
1. 20 Full Class Levels, you can progress along the Epic Progression for THAT CLASS.
2. 20 Hit Dice 10(whatever levels)/10 PrC, then you can proceed with the 11th Level (Epic) of the PrC.

This means a 10/10 Fighter/Cleric is not Epic until he reach 20 in one of those.
So a 20/10 Fighter/Cleric can take a level of EPIC Fighter or a normal Cleric Level.

We haven't playtested it as of yet as we are still sub-20 Levels for now. Will let you know how it plays out.

 

[Crothian]

The Epic Book is broke in my opinion.

Because of it's rules it does not pay for any of the True Spell Casters (Wizards / Clerics / Sorc's) to either multi-class or take a PrC that does not offer full progression. They end up penalized for it.

They just have to take some more levels of whatever class to get spellcaster level of 20. Besides, even in the non epic game lossing spellcaster levels by mutli classing and other means hurts the spellcasting classes. I don't see it as a problem.