D&D 5E The Esoteric Warrior (Monk sans Orientalism)+

[doctorbadwolf]

It's bland as all get out, but perhaps one of the safest ways to ensure the de-Orientalizing is to just make Ki points into Spell Points, or even Spell Slots that can be used for Martial Arts abilities similar to a Smite: they already are by the math, and making that more clear might help with designing abilities.

IIRC, they add up to spell points only if you cost abilities at 1+1/spell level, as the elements monk does, and get the right amount over the course of the day.

But only the 4elements monk costs abilities at that rate, so it doesn’t add up in practice for the majority of cases.

Besides which, using spell slots makes it harder to avoid having to design a dozen or so abilities for spell levels 1-5, rather than a couple dozen total at most.

So I’m probably going to keep the math, and a name other than spell points, and include a pb/day “ritual” to regain your spent focus, rather than using a short rest.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Is there anything useful for you in the A5E Adept class?

Probably, but I don’t own it. My preference is to create either an alternate class or set of alternate features that can be used with the original subclasses, and not need much adjustment.

 

[Parmandur]

IIRC, they add up to spell points only if you cost abilities at 1+1/spell level, as the elements monk does, and get the right amount over the course of the day.

But only the 4elements monk costs abilities at that rate, so it doesn’t add up in practice for the majority of cases.

Besides which, using spell slots makes it harder to avoid having to design a dozen or so abilities for spell levels 1-5, rather than a couple dozen total at most.

So I’m probably going to keep the math, and a name other than spell points, and include a pb/day “ritual” to regain your spent focus, rather than using a short rest.

The 4 Elements Monk prices abilities at the same rate as every other Monk: Mearls broke it down when doing the Monk for his stream back when. It isn't a result that satisfies a lot of people, clearly, but the math on the internal spreadsheet at WotC works out precisely.

The short rest aspect is maybe something that needs to be fixed at any rate, to table-proof the character's abilities, so the proficiency bonus approach is probably a solid way to go.

Allowing space for a multitude of abilities seems a potential feature, rather than a bug, but that might just mean keep it at Spell Points that are undifferentiated by Level explicitly.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

The 4 Elements Monk prices abilities at the same rate as every other Monk: Mearls broke it down when doing the Monk for his stream back when. It isn't a result that satisfies a lot of people, clearly, but the math on the internal spreadsheet at WotC works out precisely.

No, they don’t. Every other monk with spells pays 1 ki less for their spells.

But also, “doesn’t satisfy a lot of people” is literally objectively more important than “the spreadsheet says it works”.

The short rest aspect is maybe something that needs to be fixed at any rate, to table-proof the character's abilities, so the proficiency bonus approach is probably a solid way to go.

“Ten minute ritual that can be performed as part of a short rest.” Is the basic model I’m looking at. 1 or 5 minute is also on the table, but 1 action is not.

Allowing space for a multitude of abilities seems a potential feature, rather than a bug, but that might just mean keep it at Spell Points that are undifferentiated by Level explicitly.

Or, just don’t call them spell points, because they aren’t.

 

[Parmandur]

No, they don’t. Every other monk with spells pays 1 ki less for their spells.

But also, “doesn’t satisfy a lot of people” is literally objectively more important than “the spreadsheet says it works”.

At a disadvantage to Spell use in some way to compensate.

Sure, satisfaction is the real test for a design...but mathematical equivalence is a forerunner to that, not seperate.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

At a disadvantage to Spell use in some way to compensate.

What, not being able to upcast? Insignificant. Smaller list? Essentially meaningless.

A level 2 spell is a level 2 spell. The 4Elements has no advantage over the Shadow Monk or Sun Soul in terms of spells being usable, action economy when casting, or spell save DC in cases where it’s relevant.

Sure, satisfaction is the real test for a design...but mathematical equivalence is a forerunner to that, not seperate.

We are talking about a case wherein the two conflict. In such a case, satisfaction wins.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Just to note: the Shadow Monk gets level 2 spells at level 3. When full casters get them. The rest of their kit is at-will, with some situational limits.

Sun Soul gets its only literal spell at level 6, but it’s a bonus action, and at 11 it gets a mini-fireball at-will that can be pumped up by 2d6 to 6d6 by spending ki.

The 4 Elements Monk is only equal to any other monk on a spreadsheet, and even then, Mike was full of it.

 

[Krachek]

I suggest to disconnect Strunning strike from focus points.
This ability act like a drug. All the ressource turn around it.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Any thoughts? Please no "this entire endeavor is bad" type posts.

I actually think this is a good idea. I'll be following your progress on it.

 

[Marandahir]

I actually like this endeavor (as opposed to creating a new class that steps on the Monk's toes, it's attempting to broaden the Monk into additionally-related archetypes).

Lean into Jedi and Sith concepts too. The "Monk" should have significant vow and creed overlaps with the Paladin, but could thereby represent Jedi in a way that the Paladin feels to overtly divine magical light and pew pew about.