D&D 5E The Esoteric Warrior (Monk sans Orientalism)+

Tales and Chronicles

Jewel of the North, formerly know as vincegetorix
I suggest to disconnect Strunning strike from focus points.
This ability act like a drug. All the ressource turn around it.
I'd go back to the old days of stunning fist being usable X times per day. Probably like Prof. Bonus per day.
Or move it to the same archetype that keep Quivering Palm.
 

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I'd go back to the old days of stunning fist being usable X times per day. Probably like Prof. Bonus per day.
Or move it to the same archetype that keep Quivering Palm.
Stunning strike is hard to balance. when it kick in right from the start of a fight it is just like to good, and when it face high con saves it feel like a lame. If they switch it to a single archetype it will need a real strong feature for the others.
 

Tales and Chronicles

Jewel of the North, formerly know as vincegetorix
Stunning strike is hard to balance. when it kick in right from the start of a fight it is just like to good, and when it face high con saves it feel like a lame. If they switch it to a single archetype it will need a real strong feature for the others.
I think one good solution would be to remove the clause that makes it usable on a hit.
Instead have it be usable at the start of your turn, then the next attack that hits in the same turn, making it wastable. Coupled with a reduced pool (2 to 6 times per day), it would reduce its power a lot.
 

I think one good solution would be to remove the clause that makes it usable on a hit.
Instead have it be usable at the start of your turn, then the next attack that hits in the same turn, making it wastable. Coupled with a reduced pool (2 to 6 times per day), it would reduce its power a lot.
Not a fan for that, monk already need some love, reducing to PB time a day is already a big restrain, actually a level 20 monk can use 20 attempts for stunning strike per short rest.
 

Tales and Chronicles

Jewel of the North, formerly know as vincegetorix
Not a fan for that, monk already need some love, reducing to PB time a day is already a big restrain, actually a level 20 monk can use 20 attempts for stunning strike per short rest.
In that case, it would be best to create new features that could compete with the effectiveness of Stunning Strikes that comes online at low-ish level.

or, in the playtest, stunning strikes were limited to once per round. That could work, too.
 



doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
I actually like this endeavor (as opposed to creating a new class that steps on the Monk's toes, it's attempting to broaden the Monk into additionally-related archetypes).

Lean into Jedi and Sith concepts too. The "Monk" should have significant vow and creed overlaps with the Paladin, but could thereby represent Jedi in a way that the Paladin feels to overtly divine magical light and pew pew about.
I’m thinking “order” rather than “way” for the subclasses. I’m considering a “vow” that bundles the basic combat style, so not everyone gets Martial Arts, but tbh that may be a bit too much.
I'd go back to the old days of stunning fist being usable X times per day. Probably like Prof. Bonus per day.
Or move it to the same archetype that keep Quivering Palm.
Pb/day isn’t bad.
I think one good solution would be to remove the clause that makes it usable on a hit.
Instead have it be usable at the start of your turn, then the next attack that hits in the same turn, making it wastable. Coupled with a reduced pool (2 to 6 times per day), it would reduce its power a lot.
I think it’s strong enough to be a bonus action when you hit, tbh.
 

glass

(he, him)
I think in terms of, to use a concept from 4E era, power sources. Wizards and sorcerers draw from arcane energy, clerics from divine (god-given) energy, druids from nature. What you're talking about seems like, if not the same as psionics, a close cousin: power drawn from within, from "spirit," if you will (or prana, chi, ki, etc).
I am fond of "essence" as a power-source name for Monks (and other such similar things like the meldshapers and soulknives from 3.5). EDIT: 4e made monks psionic, but it was an odd fit compared with the other classes in that power source.

EDIT2: Sorry, I did not realise this thread was from February. Not sure how I ended up reading it....


_
glass.
 

Mercurius

Legend
I am fond of "essence" as a power-source name for Monks (and other such similar things like the meldshapers and soulknives from 3.5). EDIT: 4e made monks psionic, but it was an odd fit compared with the other classes in that power source.

_
glass.
Yeah, that works as a catchall term for prana, chi, and ki - all of which are basically the same thing, just in different languages.

My only quibble, though, is that "essence" implies that which is central - the core, if you will. Prana, chi and ki aren't the essential self - they are the subtler, energetic bodies that are part of the total being.

In the Vedic traditions, the "prana-maya-kosha" is the second of five layers or sheaths to the being. It is the second most dense, after the "anna-maya-kosha" (or physical self). But there are three subtler sheaths, so prana isn't really the "essence" of a person.
 


doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Yeah, that works as a catchall term for prana, chi, and ki - all of which are basically the same thing, just in different languages.

My only quibble, though, is that "essence" implies that which is central - the core, if you will. Prana, chi and ki aren't the essential self - they are the subtler, energetic bodies that are part of the total being.

In the Vedic traditions, the "prana-maya-kosha" is the second of five layers or sheaths to the being. It is the second most dense, after the "anna-maya-kosha" (or physical self). But there are three subtler sheaths, so prana isn't really the "essence" of a person.
Chi means breath. It isn’t actually the same thing as prana.

There is a great discussion of chi from the perspective of a Eastern martial artist in the podcast Three Black Halflings with James Mendez Hodes.

I definitely wouldn’t use “essence” for it.
 

Mercurius

Legend
Chi means breath. It isn’t actually the same thing as prana.

There is a great discussion of chi from the perspective of a Eastern martial artist in the podcast Three Black Halflings with James Mendez Hodes.

I definitely wouldn’t use “essence” for it.
Actually prana means breath, too, or "breath of life." They are basically synonymous, just different systems and languages, and understood differently by their respective traditions.
 

Argyle King

Legend
Have you considered an unarmed subclass of Paladin?

Lose heavy armor and gain the ability to add Charisma to AC (while not wearing armor or using a shield).

Lose the usual weapon proficiencies of a paladin, instead being limited to unarmed, club, and quarterstaff.

Gain a small pool of ki points, and allow spell slots and ki points to be exchanged with each other (like the sorcerer).

Allow channel divinity, lay on hands, protective auras, and Shield of Faith* to be powered with ki.

*Allowed anyway via exchanging ki and spell slots, but I'd specifically spell it out.

Ki could be renamed to Indulgences if deemed necessary.

This is a rough idea which I just now considered. In my mind, it's loosely based on Friar Tuck being a "monk" but being one which is tied to more occidental views of spirituality.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Actually prana means breath, too, or "breath of life." They are basically synonymous, just different systems and languages, and understood differently by their respective traditions.
“Understood differently by their respective traditions” = different concepts.

We aren’t Ancient Rome, there’s no need to tell other people that their thing is actually just a different facet of this other thing from outside their culture.

They’re similar, not the same. And that similarity is most likely largely a result of breath being the starting point of nearly all esoteric traditions that focus on physical movement and forms, because breath is physically central to all exertion of the human body.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Have you considered an unarmed subclass of Paladin?

Lose heavy armor and gain the ability to add Charisma to AC (while not wearing armor or using a shield).

Lose the usual weapon proficiencies of a paladin, instead being limited to unarmed, club, and quarterstaff.

Gain a small pool of ki points, and allow spell slots and ki points to be exchanged with each other (like the sorcerer).

Allow channel divinity, lay on hands, protective auras, and Shield of Faith* to be powered with ki.

*Allowed anyway via exchanging ki and spell slots, but I'd specifically spell it out.

Ki could be renamed to Indulgences if deemed necessary.

This is a rough idea which I just now considered. In my mind, it's loosely based on Friar Tuck being a "monk" but being one which is tied to more occidental views of spirituality.
To me, that is more work to build and to use than making a new class, but something like that would be a really cool idea to explore fully as a Paladin.
 

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
“Understood differently by their respective traditions” = different concepts.

We aren’t Ancient Rome, there’s no need to tell other people that their thing is actually just a different facet of this other thing from outside their culture.

They’re similar, not the same. And that similarity is most likely largely a result of breath being the starting point of nearly all esoteric traditions that focus on physical movement and forms, because breath is physically central to all exertion of the human body.
I understand where you’re coming from, but isn’t (part of) the goal here to come up with a unified power source that can work for esoteric martial arts characters of any cultural tradition?

I don’t suppose calling them “breath points” would work?
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
I understand where you’re coming from, but isn’t (part of) the goal here to come up with a unified power source that can work for esoteric martial arts characters of any cultural tradition?

I don’t suppose calling them “breath points” would work?
It actually might.

I think that what is needed is a solid answer to the question, “how does it work when they make a magical effect happen?”

Because that leads to the answer, I think. Do they use their body to to channel the energy of the weave through themselves and their weapons, by executing complex and precise forms that start with breath in the same way that performing a leaping spinning kick to break a wood plate starts with breath? Do they practice drawing a well of power into themselves via meditation, complex ritual movements, and the drawing of sigils and ritual circles, and then draw from that well to power thier abilities? Etc
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Maybe steal some disciplines from the Mystic to have them as ''ki'' fueled maneuvers, such as Celerity, Brute Force, Aura Sight, Adaptive Body, Iron Durability, Mantle of Fear, Mantle of Command, Mantle of Fury, Nomadic Arrow, Third Eye, etc (The 4E monk could have the different elemental mastery disciplines). Each ''Adept'' would know 2-3 disciplines and some archetypes might give access to 1 or 2 special ones.

Each disciplines comes with a focus which is a passive ability that must be focused on to use the related discipline. I'd change the name to Stance.

For the name of the class, I would suggest something like Exemplar or Challenger.
I don’t know why I didn’t dig into this idea more fully when you first posted it. This is great stuff.

Different forms, each with a stance and some abilities that cost different amounts of ki/focus/breath.

One thing I think is very important is that each subclass doesn’t just give new options for spending ki that are basically on par with base class stuff of the same cost.

Drunken Master makes Flurry of Blows more powerful, for instance, while Sun Soul increases your range at will, and makes your attacks deal a less commonly resisted damage type. Shadow is odd because it basically just gives some utility options at level 3, and then gives a big ability at level 6.

4elements sucks because the abilities are costly and don’t add to your power, so you’d be better off using feats to get spells and using Open Hand or something.

Idk just musing.
 

Horwath

Hero
I have few attempts to salvage the monk. both mechanically and as an idea.

And that class just need to be removed and unarmed combat be molded into one feat with combining Grappler, tavern brawler and unarmed style.

Feat:
Unarmed training:
  • your unarmed damage is 1d6 or 1d4 if using dex for attack and damage(built in finesse). If both your hands are free damage is 1d8 or 1d6 for finesse.
  • you can make one unarmed attack, grab or shove attempt as Bonus action.
  • number of times per day equal to your proficiency bonus you can make two unarmed attacks as a Bonus action.
  • you are proficient with improvised weapons.
  • you have advantage on your unarmed attacks vs target you are grappling.
 

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